Chat with Michael2 (youtube user ID hillbillybushcraft)

[Michael2]

Michael2

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Maybe you could show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us about your boogeyman antichrist that is still in our future?

Why do you disagree with what/where Paul told us the temple of God is?
Who are the elect that are enemies of the gospel?
What is the difference  between the spirit of slumber and the spirit of antichrist?

Well if I can only pick of the four then it is OBVIOUS!
1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

that antichrist shall COME. even now are there many!! See John knew the scripture teaches that there is a coming antichrist that is THE antichrist. But what he is saying in this verse is that there are NOW many that deny the Christ. John defines this for us in 1 John 2:22 so there is no guessing as to what his definition is. I pointed this out in another post to Pete that since there where no Muslim when this was written WHO do you think he is talking about. Which by the way Pete you didn't answer. I think you don't like the hard Questions. Anyway.. If we go into other scripture like Mat 24 and Mark 13 Luke 21 2 Thes 2 and then we can go into the minor and major prophets. This is what the word of God teaches us and I really don't see with all the explanation of scripture I have given you don't see it.

So you don't believe what John told us when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"?  If the one we heard should come isn't the one we heard shall come maybe you could show us where it was they heard about this one?

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The reason you can only pick from these 4 is simple they are the only 4 verses that speak of antichrist. 

I also asked you about the temple of God, Where did Paul tell us it was? Why do you ignore what he told us and believe some man made building can be the temple of God?
Heb 8:1 - 2  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

No I agree with John 100%. You don't understand what John was saying!

If Jihn was not referring to the antichrist from 1John2:18 when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " in 1John4:3 Then where is it we heard this one shall come? Book chapter and verse please?

This is getting redundant! Dan 9:27 Mat 24:15 2 Thes 2:3
Watch REAL close

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you can't understand the son of Perdition IS SATAN then you are already deceived. If you can't see that Jesus HIMSELF will destroy this one you are deceived. Understand? Guys this stuff is pretty simple if you will listen to the word of God. Quit listening to men and trust the Lord. He has foretold us all things. Just like God told Noah exactly what would happen in his day here Paul is telling us and Jesus told us in the Olivet Discourse!

You are jumping into futurist doctrine rather than addressing his point. Piling another of Darby's futurist false presumptions onto an earlier misunderstanding doesn't make it right. Maybe this will help:

"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"this is that [spirit] of antichrist, ye have heard that it should come"

All of those verses talk about "that spirit of antichrist"

I absolutely DID address his point. But because it don't fit your way of thinking you reject it.
Ellis Skolfeild was asked about the son of perdition once! His answer? I don't know! Fact.
Also I have asked Both of you. WHO was John referring to as Anti Christ in that day? Go ahead and say it. I know you know the answer. LOL That don't really fit your way of thinking either does it?

[Michael2]

For starters Jesus referred us to Daniel for understanding on the abomination of desolation not Paul. Yes "it" can refer to a person when the sex is unkown, are you implying you don't know the sex of a man? Also the temple of God is not a man made temple in Jerusalem but the body of a believer or the corporate body. Can you show where Paul said the temple of God is a man made building? Wasn't Paul the one who told us about the man of sin, the same Paul who told us the body of the believer or the corporate body is the temple of God? Why do you ignore what Paul says to stand by the teachings of a false prophet who predicted Armagedon in 1985 and as we can all see that didn't happen. Do you really trust the teachings of a false prophet?

Do you have a Bible?? Did you read Daniel 9:27? HE HE It DOES refer to what ever is being discussed. CONTEXT is King. The temple can be physical OR spiritual we have been over this! No I do not ignore what Paul teaches you do! Murray knows more Bible than you two will ever know! AGAIN, I hate redundancy, Occams Razor. MANY stand in line to try and destroy teachers of God's word. You wouldn't be the first that has failed at this.

[Marturion]

Michael2

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Maybe you could show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us about your boogeyman antichrist that is still in our future?

Why do you disagree with what/where Paul told us the temple of God is?
Who are the elect that are enemies of the gospel?
What is the difference  between the spirit of slumber and the spirit of antichrist?

Well if I can only pick of the four then it is OBVIOUS!
1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

that antichrist shall COME. even now are there many!! See John knew the scripture teaches that there is a coming antichrist that is THE antichrist. But what he is saying in this verse is that there are NOW many that deny the Christ. John defines this for us in 1 John 2:22 so there is no guessing as to what his definition is. I pointed this out in another post to Pete that since there where no Muslim when this was written WHO do you think he is talking about. Which by the way Pete you didn't answer. I think you don't like the hard Questions. Anyway.. If we go into other scripture like Mat 24 and Mark 13 Luke 21 2 Thes 2 and then we can go into the minor and major prophets. This is what the word of God teaches us and I really don't see with all the explanation of scripture I have given you don't see it.

So you don't believe what John told us when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"?  If the one we heard should come isn't the one we heard shall come maybe you could show us where it was they heard about this one?

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The reason you can only pick from these 4 is simple they are the only 4 verses that speak of antichrist. 

I also asked you about the temple of God, Where did Paul tell us it was? Why do you ignore what he told us and believe some man made building can be the temple of God?
Heb 8:1 - 2  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

No I agree with John 100%. You don't understand what John was saying!

If Jihn was not referring to the antichrist from 1John2:18 when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " in 1John4:3 Then where is it we heard this one shall come? Book chapter and verse please?

This is getting redundant! Dan 9:27 Mat 24:15 2 Thes 2:3
Watch REAL close

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you can't understand the son of Perdition IS SATAN then you are already deceived. If you can't see that Jesus HIMSELF will destroy this one you are deceived. Understand? Guys this stuff is pretty simple if you will listen to the word of God. Quit listening to men and trust the Lord. He has foretold us all things. Just like God told Noah exactly what would happen in his day here Paul is telling us and Jesus told us in the Olivet Discourse!

You are jumping into futurist doctrine rather than addressing his point. Piling another of Darby's futurist false presumptions onto an earlier misunderstanding doesn't make it right. Maybe this will help:

"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"this is that [spirit] of antichrist, ye have heard that it should come"

All of those verses talk about "that spirit of antichrist"

I absolutely DID address his point. But because it don't fit your way of thinking you reject it.
Ellis Skolfeild was asked about the son of perdition once! His answer? I don't know! Fact.
Also I have asked Both of you. WHO was John referring to as Anti Christ in that day? Go ahead and say it. I know you know the answer. LOL That don't really fit your way of thinking either does it?

As I have already pointed out parrotting the same old doctrinally based argument does not prove your point. Where does Scripture say the man of sin is your boogieman aka the antichrist? Where does Paul tell us the temple of God is? Why do you ignore what Paul tells us yet believe a known false prophet?

[Marturion]

For starters Jesus referred us to Daniel for understanding on the abomination of desolation not Paul. Yes "it" can refer to a person when the sex is unkown, are you implying you don't know the sex of a man? Also the temple of God is not a man made temple in Jerusalem but the body of a believer or the corporate body. Can you show where Paul said the temple of God is a man made building? Wasn't Paul the one who told us about the man of sin, the same Paul who told us the body of the believer or the corporate body is the temple of God? Why do you ignore what Paul says to stand by the teachings of a false prophet who predicted Armagedon in 1985 and as we can all see that didn't happen. Do you really trust the teachings of a false prophet?

Do you have a Bible?? Did you read Daniel 9:27? HE HE It DOES refer to what ever is being discussed. CONTEXT is King. The temple can be physical OR spiritual we have been over this! No I do not ignore what Paul teaches you do! Murray knows more Bible than you two will ever know! AGAIN, I hate redundancy, Occams Razor. MANY stand in line to try and destroy teachers of God's word. You wouldn't be the first that has failed at this.

The he in Dan9:27 is not the abomination that makes desolate. He is the one that sets it up. Where did Paul, the one who wrote the verse in question tell us the temple of God was? How can a building the Jews build be the temple of God when Christ Himself declared their temple desolate approximately 2000 years ago, you know 40 or so years before it was destroyed? No ones trying to destroy teachers of God's word but we have already proven Arnold Murray to be a false prophet/teacher.

[Peter]

Michael2

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Maybe you could show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us about your boogeyman antichrist that is still in our future?

Why do you disagree with what/where Paul told us the temple of God is?
Who are the elect that are enemies of the gospel?
What is the difference  between the spirit of slumber and the spirit of antichrist?

Well if I can only pick of the four then it is OBVIOUS!
1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

that antichrist shall COME. even now are there many!! See John knew the scripture teaches that there is a coming antichrist that is THE antichrist. But what he is saying in this verse is that there are NOW many that deny the Christ. John defines this for us in 1 John 2:22 so there is no guessing as to what his definition is. I pointed this out in another post to Pete that since there where no Muslim when this was written WHO do you think he is talking about. Which by the way Pete you didn't answer. I think you don't like the hard Questions. Anyway.. If we go into other scripture like Mat 24 and Mark 13 Luke 21 2 Thes 2 and then we can go into the minor and major prophets. This is what the word of God teaches us and I really don't see with all the explanation of scripture I have given you don't see it.

So you don't believe what John told us when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"?  If the one we heard should come isn't the one we heard shall come maybe you could show us where it was they heard about this one?

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The reason you can only pick from these 4 is simple they are the only 4 verses that speak of antichrist. 

I also asked you about the temple of God, Where did Paul tell us it was? Why do you ignore what he told us and believe some man made building can be the temple of God?
Heb 8:1 - 2  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

No I agree with John 100%. You don't understand what John was saying!

If Jihn was not referring to the antichrist from 1John2:18 when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " in 1John4:3 Then where is it we heard this one shall come? Book chapter and verse please?

This is getting redundant! Dan 9:27 Mat 24:15 2 Thes 2:3
Watch REAL close

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you can't understand the son of Perdition IS SATAN then you are already deceived. If you can't see that Jesus HIMSELF will destroy this one you are deceived. Understand? Guys this stuff is pretty simple if you will listen to the word of God. Quit listening to men and trust the Lord. He has foretold us all things. Just like God told Noah exactly what would happen in his day here Paul is telling us and Jesus told us in the Olivet Discourse!

You are jumping into futurist doctrine rather than addressing his point. Piling another of Darby's futurist false presumptions onto an earlier misunderstanding doesn't make it right. Maybe this will help:

"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"this is that [spirit] of antichrist, ye have heard that it should come"

All of those verses talk about "that spirit of antichrist"

I absolutely DID address his point. But because it don't fit your way of thinking you reject it.
Ellis Skolfeild was asked about the son of perdition once! His answer? I don't know! Fact.

That is a filthy bold faced lie, and it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't hear it from Murray, in an effort to keep you away from truth and in his cult. Here's just one instance of brother Skolfield on "that man of sin" from his "Antichrist Myth" PDF.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/antichrist_myth.htm#page_4

The ironic part is that the reason you can't see it, is because you are looking for John Darby's boogieman. I already told you we are to look for that man of sin in the ONLY "temple of God", that is within the corporate body of Christ. Within the church.
Surely you can see Satan working in the ecumenical and religious pluralism and such as the "chrislam" movement. Well that goes for Mr. Murray and his wacky myriad of false doctrines including serpent seed, Kenites, and false prophecies of the antichrist in the 1980s and others.
You are so convinced that man of sin is something of the future that Satan blinded you from seeing him when he is right there in your church. Now just look at some more of the passage you misapplied to your boogieman "the" "Antichrist".

Now revisit the post in which you rejected the plain truth scripture and instead posted a little blizzard of Murray's false doctrine. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg13046#msg13046

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Also I have asked Both of you. WHO was John referring to as Anti Christ in that day? Go ahead and say it. I know you know the answer. LOL That don't really fit your way of thinking either does it?

[Michael2]

Michael2

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
2Jn 1:7  For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Maybe you could show us which one of the only 4 verses that use the term antichrist or antichrists tell us about your boogeyman antichrist that is still in our future?

Why do you disagree with what/where Paul told us the temple of God is?
Who are the elect that are enemies of the gospel?
What is the difference  between the spirit of slumber and the spirit of antichrist?

Well if I can only pick of the four then it is OBVIOUS!
1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

that antichrist shall COME. even now are there many!! See John knew the scripture teaches that there is a coming antichrist that is THE antichrist. But what he is saying in this verse is that there are NOW many that deny the Christ. John defines this for us in 1 John 2:22 so there is no guessing as to what his definition is. I pointed this out in another post to Pete that since there where no Muslim when this was written WHO do you think he is talking about. Which by the way Pete you didn't answer. I think you don't like the hard Questions. Anyway.. If we go into other scripture like Mat 24 and Mark 13 Luke 21 2 Thes 2 and then we can go into the minor and major prophets. This is what the word of God teaches us and I really don't see with all the explanation of scripture I have given you don't see it.

So you don't believe what John told us when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world"?  If the one we heard should come isn't the one we heard shall come maybe you could show us where it was they heard about this one?

1Jn 2:18  Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1Jn 4:3  And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

The reason you can only pick from these 4 is simple they are the only 4 verses that speak of antichrist. 

I also asked you about the temple of God, Where did Paul tell us it was? Why do you ignore what he told us and believe some man made building can be the temple of God?
Heb 8:1 - 2  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.

No I agree with John 100%. You don't understand what John was saying!

If Jihn was not referring to the antichrist from 1John2:18 when he said "this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " in 1John4:3 Then where is it we heard this one shall come? Book chapter and verse please?

This is getting redundant! Dan 9:27 Mat 24:15 2 Thes 2:3
Watch REAL close

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

If you can't understand the son of Perdition IS SATAN then you are already deceived. If you can't see that Jesus HIMSELF will destroy this one you are deceived. Understand? Guys this stuff is pretty simple if you will listen to the word of God. Quit listening to men and trust the Lord. He has foretold us all things. Just like God told Noah exactly what would happen in his day here Paul is telling us and Jesus told us in the Olivet Discourse!

You are jumping into futurist doctrine rather than addressing his point. Piling another of Darby's futurist false presumptions onto an earlier misunderstanding doesn't make it right. Maybe this will help:

"ye have heard that antichrist shall come"
"this is that [spirit] of antichrist, ye have heard that it should come"

All of those verses talk about "that spirit of antichrist"

I absolutely DID address his point. But because it don't fit your way of thinking you reject it.
Ellis Skolfeild was asked about the son of perdition once! His answer? I don't know! Fact.
Also I have asked Both of you. WHO was John referring to as Anti Christ in that day? Go ahead and say it. I know you know the answer. LOL That don't really fit your way of thinking either does it?

As I have already pointed out parrotting the same old doctrinally based argument does not prove your point. Where does Scripture say the man of sin is your boogieman aka the antichrist? Where does Paul tell us the temple of God is? Why do you ignore what Paul tells us yet believe a known false prophet?

speaking of parroting!!! Here is a fact for you. YOU in fact deny the word of God. You can't take what fits you or makes your way of thinking work! I have already told you that Temple is physical or spiritual. I think you just run out of things to say didn't you? Daniel refers to the "boogieman" LOL as HE. POint Blank. May be you can read that different some how. I see it as Satan. Also are you saying that Paul's writing is not inspired?? That is dangerous ground. Do you think he is a false prophet as well?? If NO. Then what he said must be correct then RIGHT? HE said the "boogieman" will be destroyed with the brightness of Jesus Coming? Seems pretty simple to me. Now if you would rather how about Mark 13
14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Dan 9:27), standing where it ( here along with Dan 9:27 should be HE and Dr. Moffit does translate this HE!) ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
These verses refer to how urgent the situation is. What Jesus is saying is when you see this, The abomination from Dan, the end is that close. i.e. Jesus return.
17But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
this reference is lets you know for a fact that the abomination is a HE. He is warning you not to play the harlot spiritually with "IT".
 18And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
do you see that? after that tribulation the tribulation of "IT" then Jesus will return like Paul said. Jesus will consume HIM (the abomination, the one sitting in the temple claiming to be God) with the brightness of his coming.
27And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
There is sound doctrine. You make this harder than it is. One more thing prophecy is NOT of private interpretation. The word of God is pretty plain about this.

[Peter]

Ellis Skolfeild was asked about the son of perdition once! His answer? I don't know! Fact.

Filthy lies no surprise coming from the follower of the false prophet/false teacher Murray - another "man of sin" in the temple of God.

http://www.ellisskolfield.net/essays

2 Timothy 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.    2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,    3  Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,    4  Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;    5  Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

[Michael2]

That is a filthy bold faced lie, and it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't hear it from Murray in an effort to keep you away from truth and in his cult. Here's just a small part of brother Skolfield on "that man of sin"
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/antichrist_myth.htm#page_4

The ironic part is that the reason you can't see it, is because you are looking for John Darby's boogieman. I already told you we are to look for that man of sin in the ONLY "temple of God", that is within the corporate body of Christ. Within the church.
Surely you can see Satan working in the ecumenical and religious pluralism and such as the "chrislam" movement. Well that goes for Mr. Murray and his wacky myriad of false doctrines including serpent seed, Kenites, and false prophecies of the antichrist in the 1980s and others.
You are so convinced that man of sin is something of the future that Satan blinded you from seeing him when he is right there in your church. Now just look at some more of the passage you misapplied to your boogieman "the" "Antichrist".

Now revisit the post in which you rejected the plain truth scripture and instead posted a little blizzard of Murray's false doctrine. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg13046#msg13046

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If I were you I would throw the Skolfeild away and stick to the word of God. A spirit!! No, it is NOT a spirit. This is dead wrong. In EVERY book you read on the subject, I am talking every book in the Word of GOD not secular like you read, the antichrist, man of sin, the abomination of desolation, apollyon, and abaddon, is very real. You would do well to listen very carefully to the verse you quoted 2 Th 2:10!
Speaking of Apollyon. Have you ever read Rev 9:11? So you think this has already happened too? What does Skolfeild say about him?

[Peter]

That is a filthy bold faced lie, and it wouldn't surprise me if you didn't hear it from Murray in an effort to keep you away from truth and in his cult. Here's just a small part of brother Skolfield on "that man of sin"
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/antichrist_myth.htm#page_4

The ironic part is that the reason you can't see it, is because you are looking for John Darby's boogieman. I already told you we are to look for that man of sin in the ONLY "temple of God", that is within the corporate body of Christ. Within the church.
Surely you can see Satan working in the ecumenical and religious pluralism and such as the "chrislam" movement. Well that goes for Mr. Murray and his wacky myriad of false doctrines including serpent seed, Kenites, and false prophecies of the antichrist in the 1980s and others.
You are so convinced that man of sin is something of the future that Satan blinded you from seeing him when he is right there in your church. Now just look at some more of the passage you misapplied to your boogieman "the" "Antichrist".

Now revisit the post in which you rejected the plain truth scripture and instead posted a little blizzard of Murray's false doctrine. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg13046#msg13046

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

If I were you I would throw the Skolfeild away and stick to the word of God. A spirit!! No, it is NOT a spirit. This is dead wrong. In EVERY book you read on the subject, I am talking every book in the Word of GOD not secular like you read, the antichrist, man of sin, the abomination of desolation, apollyon, and abaddon, is very real. You would do well to listen very carefully to the verse you quoted 2 Th 2:10!
Speaking of Apollyon. Have you ever read Rev 9:11? So you think this has already happened too? What does Skolfeild say about him?

Any surprise that you didn't repent from your bold faced lie? Not considering how you are described in the verses I quoted from 2Timothy. Which also instruct me to turn away from such as you. As I do turn away I recommend that you Google the liar that you follow.
We will continue to expose Murray and his false doctrine and false prophecies in this forum, as a quick Google the the heretic's name demonstrates, the rest of the Christian community does as well.
Don't you wonder why it is that the Nazis and skinheads go for his false doctrine so?

[Michael2]

For starters Jesus referred us to Daniel for understanding on the abomination of desolation not Paul. Yes "it" can refer to a person when the sex is unkown, are you implying you don't know the sex of a man? Also the temple of God is not a man made temple in Jerusalem but the body of a believer or the corporate body. Can you show where Paul said the temple of God is a man made building? Wasn't Paul the one who told us about the man of sin, the same Paul who told us the body of the believer or the corporate body is the temple of God? Why do you ignore what Paul says to stand by the teachings of a false prophet who predicted Armagedon in 1985 and as we can all see that didn't happen. Do you really trust the teachings of a false prophet?

Do you have a Bible?? Did you read Daniel 9:27? HE HE It DOES refer to what ever is being discussed. CONTEXT is King. The temple can be physical OR spiritual we have been over this! No I do not ignore what Paul teaches you do! Murray knows more Bible than you two will ever know! AGAIN, I hate redundancy, Occams Razor. MANY stand in line to try and destroy teachers of God's word. You wouldn't be the first that has failed at this.

The he in Dan9:27 is not the abomination that makes desolate. He is the one that sets it up. Where did Paul, the one who wrote the verse in question tell us the temple of God was? How can a building the Jews build be the temple of God when Christ Himself declared their temple desolate approximately 2000 years ago, you know 40 or so years before it was destroyed? No ones trying to destroy teachers of God's word but we have already proven Arnold Murray to be a false prophet/teacher.

You haven't proven anything nor do I think you can! And how you get your interpretation of Dan 9:27 is beyond me that is not how that reads. And when Jesus refers to Daniel. This IS what he is referring to!
As to Paul. Once again he knew the difference between physical and spiritual. This is kinda like when Paul wrote to the Thes. The first time. I don't think for one second that he thought they would be confused by this, but they were. After writing the second letter there was NO confusion to the learned. He wrote that one as plain as any could have written it. As far as the temple of God, when Paul wrote this the temple was still standing. I think I have already pointed this out. I know what Paul said (once again) about the temple being the body of Christ I think everyone understands and is in agreeance with this. But you have to realize he is speaking spiritually! If you don't understand that I can't help you.

[Michael2]

Any surprise that you didn't repent from your bold faced lie? Not considering the verses I quoted from 2Timothy. Which also tell me to turn away from such as you. Before I do I recommend that you Google the liar that you follow. We will continue to expose Murray and his false doctrine and false prophecies in this forum, as a quick Google the the heretic's name demonstrates most of the rest of the Christian community does. Why do you suppose it is that the Nazis and skinheads go for his false doctrine so? I wash my hands of you and the filth you dragged into this forum. We'll include a lot of that material in here.

LOL thanks. Believe it or not I hope to see you when the smoke clears on the sea of fire and glass. If you understand what that means!
As far as lying, no I didn't, he don't have a clue what the man of sin is! Fact. Google is the filth and trash, people like you use to gossip about teachers of Gods word. As I said before you can google King James and read all the smut people put out there and it is lies. Just like what they put out there about Murray. Post what you will about him. Your only going to be one of the many false prophets that have done so. I think it is clear the kind of person you are. Real Christians are far better people. As far as what you include do as you will. It is your forum after all. One more thing the accuser stands day and night accusing the brethren. That is what you have done to me since the second YOU invited me. If we are Judged by our fruit, it is obvious what you are!

One more thing.
I still don't think you understand the quote in your signature! LOL

[Peter]

As far as lying, no I didn't, he don't have a clue what the man of sin is! Fact.

Your lie didn't regard your disagreement with the content of Skolfield's view on "the man of sin" and you know it. Your lie was when you attributed words in a fictitious conversation to Skolfield, that never occurred, nor would it have, because he knows full well where to look for the man of sin. If you had known where to look for the man of sin you might not have been dragged down toward the pit by a false prophet of his.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/man_of_sin.htm

Ellis Skolfeild was asked about the son of perdition once! His answer? I don't know! Fact.

Just as filthy a lie now as when your first told it, and your attempts to obfuscate rather than repent, are only further witness against you, as well as further confirmation of the 2Timothy and 2Thess verses I quoted in this context.
Blake is right. And all a person has to do is pick up a bible or Yahoo Arnold Murray to find the truth. The skinheads and Nazis waged such a pitched battle against the truth on the Wikipedia article about him that Wikipedia had to remove the article.

KJV Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg13046#msg13046

To go along with William Blake let me quote Ellis Skolfield - the man you lied about.

"God is truth, so how well a person serves the Lord is not dependent on how artfully he can defend his doctrines, but on his willingness to seek out and follow the truth." - Ellis Skolfield. 

[1christianwarrior]

Google is the filth and trash, people like you use to gossip about teachers of Gods word. As I said before you can google King James and read all the smut people put out there and it is lies. Just like what they put out there about Murray. Post what you will about him. Your only going to be one of the many false prophets that have done so.

By the words of your false teacher is his fruit heard and made known. Do you believe that someone being led by the Holy Spirit would say take a 9mm to that boy? Listen to the brief audio clip in the following link of the words of your teacher!
http://carm.org/who-arnold-murray

In Christ, 1Christianwarrior

[Marturion]

speaking of parroting!!!

Yes parrotting, you can spew the doctrine you have learned fromArnold Murray false prophet/teacher as many times as you like it but that does not change the fact it is Scripturally bankrupt.

Here is a fact for you. YOU in fact deny the word of God. You can't take what fits you or makes your way of thinking work! I have already told you that Temple is physical or spiritual.

LOL there is a huge difference between denying the word of God and the doctrine you espouse. It doesn't matter what you say, what matters is what Scripture says! Not once after Christ declared the Jews temple desolate was it called the temple of God in Sccripture again. Rebuilding it won't change the fact it is already desolate. Do you believe a desolate building is the temple of God? Paul the person who wrote the verse about the man of sin repeatedly tells us the temple of God is the body of the believer or the corporate body. Can you show me one time Paul called a man made temple the temple of God? If not then why shouldn't I believe Scripture when it positively states the temple of God is the body of the believer or corporate body of believers?
 The old temple has been destroyed and Christ raised a new one in 3 days!

I think you just run out of things to say didn't you?

Not at all I have no problem pointing out that repeating you error over and over agian will not make it true.

Daniel refers to the "boogieman" LOL as HE. POint Blank. May be you can read that different some how. I see it as Satan.

The He according to the interpretation you espouse is your future antichrist, unfortunately as I have pointed out many times parrotting this Scripturall bankrupt view multiple times does not make ot true. It only shows your willingness to stand by the false prophet you learned it from. But then again maybe you believed Arnold Murray when he said the battle of armageddon would begin in Alaska in 1985 too.

Also are you saying that Paul's writing is not inspired?? That is dangerous ground. Do you think he is a false prophet as well?? If NO. Then what he said must be correct then RIGHT?

Just because i disagree with the doctrine you espouse that comes from the known faleprophet/teacher Arnold Murray does not mean I question Paul. It only means I question the heresy he taught you that you now espouse.

HE said the "boogieman" will be destroyed with the brightness of Jesus Coming? Seems pretty simple to me.

No your boogie man is your supposed future antichrist from 1John2:18 you know the one John said this"this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. " about. Paul was talking about the man of sin not "the antichrist". If you are going to say thet are the same entity you need to prove it, not just parrot the words of a Scriptural bankrupt false prophet/ teacher who you choose to follow. Why would you follow the teachings of a false prophet who predicted Armageddon in Alaska in 1985?

Now if you would rather how about Mark 13

Oh so now you want to change the subject and discuss the abomination of desolation an it not a he?

14But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet (Dan 9:27), standing where it ( here along with Dan 9:27 should be HE and Dr. Moffit does translate this HE!)

Dr Moffit only says he in his interpretation because it fits the doctrine he espouses. Kind of like you even though you insisted you only use the KJV, except of course as your words show when it doesn't fit the doctrine you espouse!

ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: 15And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: 16And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.
These verses refer to how urgent the situation is.

It most definitely was an urgent warning as those who were in Judea that did not heed His warning certainly found out when they were either murdered, enslaved or made dhimmies.

What Jesus is saying is when you see this, The abomination from Dan, the end is that close. i.e. Jesus return.

Let's stick with what Scripture actually says. Those who were told to flee were told to flee because Jerusalem was about to be desolated. See Luke 21:24

17But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
this reference is lets you know for a fact that the abomination is a HE.

LOL this from the one who claims he only uses the KJV whhich identifies the abomination as an it that stands not a he that sitteth. Looks like you are having trouble using only the kJV as you said you do. It looks more like you use whatever version suits your fancy so long as it supports the doctrine your false prophet/teacher Arnold Murray espouses.

He is warning you not to play the harlot spiritually with "IT".

LOL no he is telling those who see it to flee the desolation that is about to be brought on Jerusalem. it is yoyr false prophet of a teacher that says not to play the harlot with it spiritually. How can one play a harlot with the dome of the rock?
 

18And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. 19For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. 20And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days. 21And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not: 22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. 23But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
24But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
do you see that? after that tribulation the tribulation of "IT" then Jesus will return

LOL of course I see that Jesus does not return until after the tribulation, neither Peter or I have ever said, nor do either of us believe He will return before the tribulation. So why do you keep trying to convince He doesn't return until after the trib when we already believe He doesn't return until after the trib?
 

like Paul said. Jesus will consume HIM (the abomination, the one sitting in the temple claiming to be God) with the brightness of his coming.

Paul said it was the man of sin that would be consumed, he never said it was the abomination of desolation that would be consumed. You only believe that because you have bought into the heretical teachings of one false prophet/teacher named Arnold Murray. You know the guy who claimed in 1980 the antichrist would sit in the millenial temple iin Jreusalem in 1981. And as we can all see that didn't happen neither did the battle of Armageddon start in 1985 in Alaska llike he said it would. So why would anyone believe the rantings of a false prophet/teacher?
 

There is sound doctrine. You make this harder than it is. One more thing prophecy is NOT of private interpretation. The word of God is pretty plain about it.

And yet you continue to parrot the false and heretical teachings of a known fale prophet/ teacher  which is nothing more then a twisted version of the futurist doctrine with Arnold Murray's own private interpretation added in to promote his racist views! Amazing isn't it?

[Peter]

Brothers we can see that Michael2 consistently had trouble with truth, as even in his last effort to excuse away the very negative internet press on his false prophet Arnold Murray with.....

Google is the filth and trash, people like you use to gossip about teachers of Gods word. As I said before you can google King James and read all the smut people put out there and it is lies. Just like what they put out there about Murray.

Yet his suggestion couldn't be more verifiable false. All one has to do is Google - king james version - to find millions of sites that endorse it, promote it, and pour the accolades onto the King James Version, with descriptions like "beloved" and "favorite". This even though the King James Version is in the public domain, so nobody stands to make royalties from it's sale, like Rupert Murdoch's NIV and other pop-versions that spring from Westcott and Hort.

I can sympathize as I remember back when I was a futurist too, and the first time I did a I did a web search of my doctrine, and was introduced to the truth. I thought "Woah, the internet isn't the kind of place to learn more about my doctrine!". The search I did must have produced results that looked something like this.

[Michael2]

Brothers we can see that Michael2 consistently had trouble with truth, as even in his last effort to excuse away the very negative internet press on his false prophet Arnold Murray with.....

Google is the filth and trash, people like you use to gossip about teachers of Gods word. As I said before you can google King James and read all the smut people put out there and it is lies. Just like what they put out there about Murray.

Yet his suggestion couldn't be more verifiable false. All one has to do is Google - king james version - to find millions of sites that endorse it, promote it, and pour the accolades onto the King James Version, with descriptions like "beloved" and "favorite". This even though the King James Version is in the public domain, so nobody stands to make royalties from it's sale, like Rupert Murdoch's NIV and other pop-versions that spring from Westcott and Hort.

I can sympathize as I remember back when I was a futurist too, and the first time I did a I did a web search of my doctrine, and was introduced to the truth. I thought "Woah, the internet isn't the kind of place to learn more about my doctrine!". The search I did must have produced results that looked something like this.

LOL That depends on whos truth you are talking about! None of which you have! And yes KJ does get accolades from people like ME but there are MANY who speak falsely of it. You boys talk a lot about being indoctrinated for people who have taken the word of a Man verses Scripture. Which YOU have. I study the word for my self which is more than I can say about you. Pete seeing all the documentation you have from Skolfeild it appears that you agree with ONLY what this MAN says. That is cultic if I have ever seen it.

Marturion Do you have any Idea how hard it is to disprove ones lies to the ONE that is lying? You are SO indoctrinated you can't see the forest for the trees. I don't want you to believe anything I say nor am I hear to prove a point. My goal for everyone is to read the word of God for their self. The point being made about After tribulation. Is That tribulation happens Right before Christ returns. You two make out like all of the things Christ warned about has already happened. Some have, but most, and in-particularly the things that happen just before his return have NOT. You talk badly about men like Scofield Darby and the like, because they teach a pre-trib and future antichrist. Yet you are in fact saying the VERY SAME thing about the return of Christ except for the antichrist, and that is the only difference I see between you two and them. It is ridiculous. If you would think for you self half a second you would see this. You think you are in tribulation now. Did you read the description of what Jesus and the prophets said it would be like during that time. LOL Have you seen one make fire come from heaven? What about giving life to the image of the beast? What about world peace? Of course it is fake peace. Have you seen ANY of these things? If so educate me! Show me in the word of God and History when and where these things happened! We could go on for a while as to what it is going to be like during that time but you have already read it. Right? So put these things into Historic reference for me. I am curious how it is you can claim and show all these things have already happened.

[Peter]

Brothers we can see that Michael2 consistently had trouble with truth, as even in his last effort to excuse away the very negative internet press on his false prophet Arnold Murray with.....

Google is the filth and trash, people like you use to gossip about teachers of Gods word. As I said before you can google King James and read all the smut people put out there and it is lies. Just like what they put out there about Murray.

Yet his suggestion couldn't be more verifiable false. All one has to do is Google - king james version - to find millions of sites that endorse it, promote it, and pour the accolades onto the King James Version, with descriptions like "beloved" and "favorite". This even though the King James Version is in the public domain, so nobody stands to make royalties from it's sale, like Rupert Murdoch's NIV and other pop-versions that spring from Westcott and Hort.

I can sympathize as I remember back when I was a futurist too, and the first time I did a I did a web search of my doctrine, and was introduced to the truth. I thought "Woah, the internet isn't the kind of place to learn more about my doctrine!". The search I did must have produced results that looked something like this.

LOL That depends on whos truth you are talking about! None of which you have! And yes KJ does get accolades from people like ME but there are MANY who speak falsely of it. You boys talk a lot about being indoctrinated for people who have taken the word of a Man verses Scripture. Which YOU have. I study the word for my self which is more than I can say about you. Pete seeing all the documentation you have from Skolfeild it appears that you agree with ONLY what this MAN says. That is cultic if I have ever seen it.

Marturion Do you have any Idea how hard it is to disprove ones lies to the ONE that is lying? You are SO indoctrinated you can't see the forest for the trees. I don't want you to believe anything I say nor am I hear to prove a point. My goal for everyone is to read the word of God for their self. The point being made about After tribulation. Is That tribulation happens Right before Christ returns. You two make out like all of the things Christ warned about has already happened. Some have, but most, and in-particularly the things that happen just before his return have NOT. You talk badly about men like Scofield Darby and the like, because they teach a pre-trib and future antichrist. Yet you are in fact saying the VERY SAME thing about the return of Christ except for the antichrist, and that is the only difference I see between you two and them. It is ridiculous. If you would think for you self half a second you would see this. You think you are in tribulation now. Did you read the description of what Jesus and the prophets said it would be like during that time. LOL Have you seen one make fire come from heaven? What about giving life to the image of the beast? What about world peace? Of course it is fake peace. Have you seen ANY of these things? If so educate me! Show me in the word of God and History when and where these things happened! We could go on for a while as to what it is going to be like during that time but you have already read it. Right? So put these things into Historic reference for me. I am curious how it is you can claim and show all these things have already happened.

Your questions spring from the false presumptions you have been taught to believe. They also ring hollow since you haven't expressed an interest in answers to any questions you have asked so far, so it isn't likely you will start now.
If you should acquire an interest in exploring another eschatology, that could help you overcome the satanic delusion you suffer - that is also well supported by the fathers of the "former age" and consistent with 2,000 years of Christian core doctrine - the only way to understand an eschatology is to consider it in its entirety, within the context it employs, completely on its own merit. But you won't get far if you try to wring it through the filter of your Nazi/skinhead futurist context doctrine as you read.
You can find one such study within the traditional continuous-historic context at the following link.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/the_false_prophet.htm
There are only 4 such contexts in the church (and futurist the approach you hold has only been in the church since the mid-19th century)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology#Approaches_to_prophetic_interpretation

After about four years since the founding of this forum you may well be the first to have earned the honor of authoring the first posts that wind up in the "dung heap" category - which I am considering retitling "Dung Heap and Synagogue of Satan". Any more attempts to advance Hitler's/Murray's/Satan's Lucifarian doctrine http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3150.msg13083#msg13083 in here, will be sent there, perhaps beginning with your last one.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=37.0

I do appreciate your having introduced us to Hitler's doctrine though, for exploration and inclusion in this forum, for read-only participants that are similarly deceived as you that may actually wonder why it is they find themselves in the company of Nazis, skinheads, Satanists and the KKK, while inadvertently advancing the 1400 year goal of Islam.

"This "Serpent Seed" doctrine is not a new revelation but an ancient teaching of Satan himself. The "Serpent Seed" ("SS") doctrine is a cunning DISTORTION of the Bible and the genetic line of Cain and Seth. It is biblically false and the CORE BELIEF of Nazism, Aryanism, Neo Nazis, Satanists and the Luciferic Illuminati. It was responsible for the Holocaust and the death of six million Jews, World War II and the loss of millions of more lives."
Several posts on your doctrine there:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3150.msg13084#msg13084

[Marturion]

Brothers we can see that Michael2 consistently had trouble with truth, as even in his last effort to excuse away the very negative internet press on his false prophet Arnold Murray with.....

Google is the filth and trash, people like you use to gossip about teachers of Gods word. As I said before you can google King James and read all the smut people put out there and it is lies. Just like what they put out there about Murray.

Yet his suggestion couldn't be more verifiable false. All one has to do is Google - king james version - to find millions of sites that endorse it, promote it, and pour the accolades onto the King James Version, with descriptions like "beloved" and "favorite". This even though the King James Version is in the public domain, so nobody stands to make royalties from it's sale, like Rupert Murdoch's NIV and other pop-versions that spring from Westcott and Hort.

I can sympathize as I remember back when I was a futurist too, and the first time I did a I did a web search of my doctrine, and was introduced to the truth. I thought "Woah, the internet isn't the kind of place to learn more about my doctrine!". The search I did must have produced results that looked something like this.

LOL That depends on whos truth you are talking about! None of which you have! And yes KJ does get accolades from people like ME but there are MANY who speak falsely of it. You boys talk a lot about being indoctrinated for people who have taken the word of a Man verses Scripture. Which YOU have. I study the word for my self which is more than I can say about you. Pete seeing all the documentation you have from Skolfeild it appears that you agree with ONLY what this MAN says. That is cultic if I have ever seen it.

Marturion Do you have any Idea how hard it is to disprove ones lies to the ONE that is lying?

Sure I do. They usually refuse to answer questions like the ones I have asked you about the temple. When I say the temple of God is the body of believers or the corporate body of believers I can actually show Scripture that 100% supports my view (1Cor3:16-17, 2Cor6:16 Eph2:19-21). You on the other hand have to resort to man made arguments to show that you believe a temple that may or may not be built is the temple of God. But as it has been pointed out many times we have a new tempple and a new covenant.
Heb 8:1  Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
Heb 8:2  A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
Can you show a single verse where after the Crucifixion and resurrection a man made temple was referred to in Scripture as the temple of God? Why not use the definition Paul (the one who told us about the man of sin) gave us for the temple of God?

You are SO indoctrinated you can't see the forest for the trees. I don't want you to believe anything I say nor am I hear to prove a point.

That is good because yooour view cannot be proven as it is the doctrine of false prophets/teachers like Arnold Murray.

My goal for everyone is to read the word of God for their self.

So then why do promote the doctrine of a false prophet/teacher that in many cases directly contradicts the Word of God?

The point being made about After tribulation. Is That tribulation happens Right before Christ returns. You two make out like all of the things Christ warned about has already happened. Some have, but most, and in-particularly the things that happen just before his return have NOT.

Actually if one uses the tried and true methods that most Christians use to understand the prophecies leading to the first advent we can see that the vast majoority of prophecy has been unfolding since (and in some cases even before) John wrote Revelation. Job8:8 tells us to enquire of those from the former ages. If we exammine their methods of interpretation we will find that most believed in the day for a year principle that most Christians use to understand Daniels first 69 weeks taking us from Artaxerxes decree of 444/445BC to 32/33AD.. They realized that prophecy would not be fully understood until the time of the end and that after Israel became a nation and Jerusalem was no longer trodden over by the Gentiles we would be able to look back through history to see the fulfillment of prophecy.

 

You talk badly about men like Scofield Darby and the like, because they teach a pre-trib and future antichrist. Yet you are in fact saying the VERY SAME thing about the return of Christ except for the antichrist, and that is the only difference I see between you two and them.

Which only shows that you have not taken the time to read or understand any of the links Peter has provided showing where the vast majority of prophecy has already been fulfileed and the Lords retun could happen any day. As Peter has pointed out the two predominate views on eschatology preterism and futurism are on opposite ends of the scale and by necessity both must rule out the possibilty that Mohammed is the false prophet. Unfortunately both futurist and preterist or wrong the continuos historic method is th eonly one that matches Scripture perfectly and can be verified historically.

It is ridiculous. If you would think for you self half a second you would see this. You think you are in tribulation now.

Like it or not Scripture proves that tribulation has been going on for over 1900 years. Was John wrong when he told us he was in tribulation?
Rev 1:9  I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Did you read the description of what Jesus and the prophets said it would be like during that time.

Indeed the worst time of tribulation in the world occurred between the time the dome of the rock was built until Israel became a nation or when God gave Israel back to  the Jews in 1967. Look ath how many believers were killed during the reformation alone. And let's not forget the holocaust. i could go on but it would be better if you just took the time to read (with an open mind) the information provided at www.beholdthebeast.com

LOL Have you seen one make fire come from heaven? What about giving life to the image of the beast? What about world peace? Of course it is fake peace. Have you seen ANY of these things? If so educate me! Show me in the word of God and History when and where these things happened! We could go on for a while as to what it is going to be like during that time but you have already read it. Right? So put these things into Historic reference for me. I am curious how it is you can claim and show all these things have already happened.

Here is a link that shows the time line http://www.beholdthebeast.com/mathematical_precision_of_prophecy.htm
Here is a link that explains the Olivette discourse based on what God's Word says http://www.beholdthebeast.com/matthew_24_olivet_discourse.htm

I have taken the time to thoroughly research the views (and origins of those views) held by others including the doctrine taught by Murray. Can you honestly say the same about the views of others? Can you explain the origin of the view you hold and when/where many of those beliefs originated? Did they begin before or after the time of the end began and the book of Daniel was unsealed? When did the time of the end begin?

[Michael2]

I told ou once I looked over it. Most of it is way off! but some things are interesting. i.e.

So verse 32 discusses the "fig tree", putting forth leaves, which is a reference to the Jews, and all Israel, gathering again in the Holy Land, but perhaps not yet producing much fruit, with many returning Jews perhaps not even understanding what is pulling them there, since so many claim to be secular or even atheists.  The Lord had withered the fig tree and did not allow it to bear any more fruit, and ever since, the Jews have not been allowed to evangelize Gentiles into the Jewish witness.

You are correct about this being a reference to Jews. I said we needed to define the word Jew early in this discussion. Jew can be a member of the tribe of Judea or a resident of Judea! The point is not everybody that claims to be our brother Judah really is. You have to understand the horticulture of the fig tree to understand the entirety of the parable. This parable is also a direct reference to the Garden. They sowed fig leaves to cover their selves. And it is a direct reference to Jeremiah 24. Good and Bad Fig. Again look at the horticulture if you want to understand the whole concept. 

The Greek houtos {hoo'-tos} translated as  "this" in the verse above, is translated as "the same" on 28 other occasions. Perhaps "the same" might be a better translation here since the "times of the Gentiles" were not over until 1967.  Houtos is also translated as "they" on 10 occasions. 

I believe this is a reference to the literal generation that sees all these things fulfilled, and that generation begins in 1967, because it has to include the generation that sees the 'times of the Gentiles fulfilled".  It is obvious that the "times of the Gentiles" weren't over in 70 AD since the Romans whacked another 750,000 Jews less than 70 years after the million killed in 70 AD. The word translated as "this" could hardly be considered a word to hang a doctrine on (preterism).

It is not for me to speculate as to how long a generation is.  If the Lord meant a literal generation I heard one doctor say that folks in their 50's today, that take reasonably good care of themselves, may live to be 120 due to the pace of medical advancement.  I have been witness to folks who try to use the single term "generation", as some sort of proof of their eschatology, but nothing can be proved by this term.  It is at best ambiguous as far as the first century Greek language is concerned since it could be a metaphor referring to the generation of Christians, for example.  From Strong's definitions:   generation: 2b) metaphor - a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character

Both definitions work for the exegesis proffered here.  Not so for those who use it as a primary pillar, under the 16th century Jesuit Alcazar invention that is textually, mathematically, historically, chronologically, logically, hermeneutic, and Greek and Hebrew definition bankrupt, eschatology, of preterism.

For your notes I can only find three Generations mentioned in the word of God they are a 40, 70 and a 120 year generation. However I disagree with the six day war being the beginning of the final generation. Since the Parable is a direct reference to the Jeremiah 24 prophecy then 1948 must be the beginning of this generation.

Matthew 24:37 But as the days of Noe [were], so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

The coming of the Son of man.  Just like in the previous discourse.  The Second Coming.  Concluding this section regarding how we will know.

This verse speaks volumes to the Christian. First I would point out that God told Noah everything he was goin to do Before he did it. Just like Christ did. Also You two may be sethites but I believe the word of God when it says the sons of God took the daughters of men to wife. In other words Angels left their place of habitation and took strange flesh just as the book of Jude said they did. So this could be the they that Jesus is referring to. And once more the flood was upon the face of the earth 5 months. Just like the flood of lies that is coming will be. hat flood is the apostasy.

Marturion your still not being specific in what events in prophecy have taken place except 70 AD which is NOT what you say it is. Also
may be I am just stating things wrong for your needs. You tell me who this king is that Daniel is talking about.
Daniel11:36And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. 37Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. 38But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. 39Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.

I say it is the same king spoken of in Rev 9
Rev9:11And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.
You know what Apollyon and Abaddon mean right? So if this is NOT THE antichrist (that is to say false Jesus. or false Messiah) Then what do you call him and when pray tell did this event happen I would like details on it please.

Pete. Look, your site bro, do with it as you see fit. It really don't bother me. If you want to persecute the brethren then do it. Persecution is something I am used to. You already know people do not like hearing the truth.  To know that people will have to stand for Jesus in tribulation is taboo where I live. Just about everybody and I do mean everybody where I live are pre-tribers. I am sure it is probably the same where you live. However what you teach is not much different.

[Michael2]

Here is some more of that smut for you. Those "Jews" you speak so fondly of!

youtube.com/watch?v=IX9Tk2TMA6Q

This was broadcast on tv israelienne  youtube.com/watch?v=qtVpHUjwQSA

And this is even worse. Our "Muslim Enemies" even Condemn jewish blasphemy Against Jesus
youtube.com/watch?v=C7IzvywgeX0
She called Jesus a Nazi like you have called me a thousand times.

You say I am racist because you don't understand. Actually political Zionism is the most dangerous thing for real Judah there has ever been. And once again I love our brother Judah. I just don't happen to think the people that make stuff like what is above could be real Judah.

[Michael2]

I went onto Ellis Skolfield 's site in the ask the author section and found this.

QUESTION: In the False Prophet you state that the "times of the Gentiles" ended in 1967 when the Jews took control of Jerusalem. However, only the eastern part of Jerusalem really went into Jewish hands and a large number of Arabs still reside in the city. In a sense then, the Gentiles are still trampling Jerusalem. What am I missing?

ANSWER: You are missing the cultural setting. To understand that verse, we need to place ourselves in the shoes of the prophet and recognize what happened to a conquered monarch at the time of his defeat. We need to know what "trodden down" meant to people in Bible times. When an Old Testament king conquered a new land, he made the conquered king fall on his face before him. The victorious king would then place his foot on the neck of the defeated king, graphically showing that his land was now "trodden down." You can see examples of this custom in various ancient bas-reliefs.

"Time of the Gentiles" was a phrase used by Jesus in His final discourse to His disciples to describe what would happen to Jerusalem following His death and resurrection. I quote the verse . . .

Luk 21:24 "And they (the Jews) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."

From 606 B.C. to 1967 A.D., Jerusalem was under various Gentile governments. It was governmentally "trodden down" of Gentiles. As of the 1967 war, that is no longer the case. Jerusalem and much of the Holy Land is now under Jewish governmental control for the first time in 2573 years. You are correct that many Arabs still live in Jerusalem, nevertheless they do not control it governmentally, thus Jerusalem is no longer governmentally "trodden down" of the Gentiles.

Ellis Skolfield

His answer can NOT be true and here is why.
1And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Do you know why it is a reed like unto a rod Becasue this is being measured for punishment. This is the rod of correction. Then in verse 2But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. It is given to the gentiles until the time of Jesus return! Israel only took part of the city in 1967 not the whole city and the dome of the rock is still standing proving what I am saying is true.
By the way Marturion did you catch that part about the temple of God. He is measuring a physical place not the spiritual temple you keep referring to. And yes I know the dome of the rock is standing instead of the temple of God. However the Whole site was not destroyed as you two say it was. The walls of the court are still standing and it will ALL be turned to sand. Not to far in the future.
But go ahead guys set me straight.

[Michael2]

If this don't sound familiar your not paying attention. Here is some more truth.

youtube.com/watch?v=xw2FhXZ9tiw

The very same thing today in America. This is the four hidden Dynasties at there very BEST!

[Peter]

Did either of us recommend that you go to a site and ask a question and then wring the answer through the filter of Satan's/Hitler's/Arnold Murray's serpent seed doctrine? No. You can't even get to first base with that satanic lie because you have to reject Genesis 4:1 to follow Satan and his prophet Murray.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3150.0

In fact I indicated that if even if you read the whole book, but kept trying to wring it through the filter of Hitler/Satan's/Murray's doctrine you wouldn't get anything out of it, didn't I.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3128.msg13092#msg13092

We are former futurists so we understand the roots of futurist doctrine. And now we have learned the Satan's Seed rotted core of your doctrine is rooted in Hitler/Satan.
But you are unfamiliar with the traditional continuous historic context we understand Revelation through.

[Michael2]

LOL Pete you removed some of my comments! Did the truth strike a nerve?

[Peter]

LOL Pete you removed some of my comments! Did the truth strike a nerve?

No I replied and then moved them to the appropriate forum section, and hadn't gotten around to putting the link to it here yet.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3162.0