The Holy Land of Prophets is Mecca, not Jerusalem (spam consolidated - retitled)

[Mujaheed]

By Dr. Rafat Amari - Islam: In Light of History
(Typed out here by Pete. Any typographical errors are mine.)
New web page

page 100-103

The well which God showed to Hagar in the Wilderness of Beersheba was not the well of Zamzam at Mecca.

We can read in Genesis that Ishmael lived in the region south of Canaan near his nephew, Esau. In fact, the Bible goes into some detail about their relationship, showing that they were in constant contact with one other. And Ishmael would have had to live there for many years, because Esau married Ishmael's daughter, according to Genesis 28.9. At that time, when Ishmael and his mother were sent away from Abraham's house in Beersheba, South of Palestine, they could not have walked more than 50 or 100 miles before the skin of water she carried was empty. Let's read the story as told in the book of Genesis.

Gen 21:14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave [it] unto Hagar, putting [it] on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.    15  And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.     16  And she went, and sat her down over against [him] a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against [him], and lift up her voice, and wept.

(Map of Beersheba http://bibleatlas.org/full/beersheba.htm)

19  And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink.    20  And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer.    21  And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt.
__________________

This map section inserted into Dr. Amari's paper by Pete
(map locating the wilderness of Paran) http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-route-wilderness-of-paran.htm
(map Jerusalem to Mt. Paran) http://www.bible.ca/archeology/bible-archeology-exodus-route-mt-sinai-paran-jerusalem-dawn-from-seir-north.jpg
click on the maps to enlarge




____________________

These words are from Genesis, chapter 31, verses 14 through 21. Look at the facts concerning Ishmael and his mother. The well which God showed Hagar was in Beersheba, not very far from where Abraham had previously lived. It was in South Canaan. The well that the Lord showed to Hagar could not have been the well of Zamzam at Mecca, as Muslims claim, because the well of Mecca is more than a thousand miles from Beersheba. Obviously, Hagar could not possibly have been carrying a water supply for a thousand-mile walk. Even if she had food and water, the great distance between Hebron and Mecca was through an uninhabited desert, untraveled in her time, without any city or village for her to rest in. She would have needed more than a year to walk to her destination. She would have been an unescorted woman, traveling by foot. She would have had no caravan to carry her and no directions from previous travelers.

We know that the first record of the Egyptians about Yemen was in the 14th century B.C., centuries after Hagar's time. It was only in that 14th century B.C. that the Egyptians knew there were people living in Yemen. Those Egyptians gave us the first historical record about that land. The oldest report on southern Arabia came from the times of the Pharaoh, Tuthmosis III, in the middle of the 14th century B.C.2 It was not until the 12th century B.C. that the first kingdom in Yemen started. That was called the Sabaean Kingdom, about nine centuries after Abraham lived. So you see, Before the appearance of the Sabaeans, the desert between Palestine and Yemen was never crossed by any caravan. Also, the cities which were built on the caravan road appeared very late in history, because the land route was not adopted by the Yemeni until much later. According to scholars and historians, a marine route was adopted before a land route, because marine travel was faster and less dangerous than land travel. Scholars do not believe the marine route was adopted before the 12th century B.C., and the land route along the Red Sea was not developed until the 3rd century B.C.

Thus, saying that Hagar and Ishmael crossed the desert to Mecca is a ridiculous statement, which can be accepted only by persons who ignore completely the history of Arabia. In Hagar's time, there was no relationship between Palestine and Yemen there was no kingdom known in Yemen' and no civilization which existed in Western Arabia in the regions where Mecca was eventually built. As I stated before, the land route from Yemen toward the North of Arabia by the Red sea started only in the 3rd century B.C. Since then, some villages have been built as stations for the caravans to refresh themselves. Prior to that time, caravans avoided that dangerous desert. The Yemeni used to sail the Red Sea, avoiding this long and dangerous deserted segment to reach ports near Ilat, which is now a seaport in Israel near Aqaba, the Jordanian port. Some cities along the Red Sea were established only after the land route flourished around the 1st century A.D. But not Mecca.

Greek and Roman geographers walked the land route after it started in the 3rd century B.C. They mentioned the villages and cities which were established along the Red Sea, where Mecca was eventually built. They mentioned the tiny and trivial villages and stations where caravans stopped. They mentioned each temple which existed in the regions of West Arabia. Not one mentioned Mecca, or that a temple existed in the area where Mecca was later built.

Geographers also described the tribes and people living in West Arabia. But, when describing the area where Mecca was later built, they all said that it was an uninhabitable region of sand where only dangerous nomads moved from time to time. There were not real settlements or villages. We have a clear picture of this fact from the times of Herodotus, the famous Greek historian and geographer who lived in the 5th century B.C., and throughout all consecutive centuries after Herodotus until the 4th century A.D. During this span of time, several Greek and Roman historians walked that route, and also wrote about it.

We clearly see historical documentation that Mecca didn't exist before the Christian era, nor in the first few centuries after Christ lived on earth. This definitely refutes the Islamic claim that Mecca was in existence at the time of Abraham, and also refutes the claim of the Qur'an that the temple at Mecca was built by Ishmael and Abraham. Thereby, history excludes any connection between the pagan temple and the Biblical monotheistic faith which Abraham and his son Isaac, and Isaac's descendants, were entrusted with until the coming of Christ, who is the fulfillment of the revelation given to Abraham and to all the prophets of the Old Testament.

DEAR PETER, PLEASE PASS THIS INFORMATION ON TO RAFAT AMARI
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334
IT HAS COME TO MY ATTENTION THAT A PORTION OF THE VAST AMOUNT OF LITERATURE IN ARABIC HAS BEEN TRANSLATED FOR OUR CONVENIENCE, THE PROOF TO BACK UP MUSLIMS ABOUT ABRAHAM< SARAH< HAGAR AND ISMAEL.

THIS IS THE REAL STORY OF THE BIBLE ACCOUNT OF ABRAHAM.ON THIS WEBSITE.

[Mujaheed]

http://www.petewaldo.com/mecca.htm
Here is a PDF tract on the subject.  http://petewaldo.com/m28.pdf

Though I haven't found the time YET, so don't know exactly how they work, I would encourage all forum members to create a free Google website to bring this vital subject to the world. I don't believe there is a greater tool to help Muslims overcome Mohammed's 7th century religion. Some may have an easier time approaching the Gospel only after they have overcome Islam. This is the front line in the war on terror/Islam.

Please see links half-way down the page for many more forum threads on the history of Makkah.

Mecca - Makkah

This page is of vital importance to everyone - whether religious or not - and is of particular importance to Mohammed's followers.

Mecca or Makkah, is the historical and geographical epicenter of Islam. All practicing Muslims on earth prostrate themselves toward the Kaaba in Mecca five times a day. Every Muslim is obliged to travel to Mecca, and perform the Islamic ritual of the Hajj at least once in their lifetime, because it is the "fifth pillar" of Islam. Islamic tradition teaches that the Kaaba, around which Islam revolves, is located in the center of the world and was the first temple on earth. This tradition holds that it was built by Adam and later rebuilt by Abraham and Ishmael.

THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

[Mujaheed]

JERUSALEM IS MUCH MORE THAN JUST ONE NIGHT JOURNEY IN ISLAM, THE NIGHT JOURNEY WAS TO MASJIDUL AQSA.

What other role did Jerusalem play IN THE FOUNDATION of Mohammed's 7th century religion, besides Mohammed's fanciful and UNWITNESSED night journey on a flying donkey-mule, and his lie that he prayed in a non-existent temple?

The only role Jerusalem played in Islam was much later on after being enslaved by Mohammedan conquest.

YOU MIGHT WANT TO VISIT the follwing website before you go any further with your conjecture
THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

[Mujaheed]

bump

The following website disagrees with the EUROPEAN CREATION OF FANTASY THEY CALL HISTORY
THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

[Mujaheed]

   *  The Classical Writers and Mecca - By Dr. Rafat Amari
    * Archaeology  and Mecca - By Dr. Rafat Amari
    * The Bible and Mecca- By Dr. Rafat Amari
    * The Kaabah and the Arabian Star Worship - By Dr. Rafat Amari
    * The Role of the Temple at Mecca in the Jinn Religion and in the Arabian Family Star Religion - By Dr. Rafat Amari
    * The True Story of the Construction of the Temple of Mecca - By Dr. Rafat Amari

Please read the article at this link that includes footnotes and such.
http://religionresearchinstitute.org/mecca/archeology.htm

Please scrunch your browser in at the sides to make the lines shorter and more readable.
Bolding in text below Pete's

THE HISTORY AND ARCHAEOLOGY OF ARABIA SHOW THAT MECCA DID NOT EXIST BEFORE THE ADVENT OF CHRISTIANITY.

  By Dr. Rafat Amari

The richness of the archaeological findings and inscriptions of many regions of Arabia.


    After examining all the records concerning the kingdoms and cities located north of Mecca, we conclude that the reigns of most of the rulers are well-documented. We know about the wars in which they were engaged, and the names of their gods. Mecca is conspicuous by its absence. Even though Muslims claim Mecca dates back to the time of Abraham, not one record indicates its existence at any time before Christ.

THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

[Peter]

"Abstract:

By the end of the last century, new stunning hypothesis emerged amongst theologians and historians advocating that the prevailing common understanding of the Israeli prophets' geographical homelands and journey routes were radically erroneous. The new hypothesis suggests that Asir province (situated in the southern part of Al-Surat Mountains, stretching alongside the western coastal border of Arabia, bounded between Yemen’s northern borders and the holy city of Makkah) was indeed the actual geographical theater which accommodated most of the Israeli prophets’ birthplaces, revelations, preaching, and burials. Subsequent research work narrowed down the prophets lands to Makkah county situated within the Hijaz and Asir Surat Mountains. This holy city emerged as the real and the only homeland of Abraham, Lot, Sara, Hagar and Ishmael as revealed in this paper. This whole hypothesis stemmed from the inconceivable inconsistencies in the biblical accounts of geographical landscapes traversed by the prophets, besides the lack of any supporting archeological evidences to date either in Palestine, Syria, Iraq or Egypt."

Gwaffaw, gwaffaw, guaffaw!!!!! Will the poor fellow stop at nothing?

If the Holy Land was in Mecca, why do you suppose Mohammed would have bothered riding his flying donkey-mule all the way to the (at the time non-existent) temple, that he lied about praying in, in Jerusalem? What was the ring Mohammed tethered his fanciful flying beast to, that was "used by the prophets", doing in Jerusalem if they were born, lived and were buried in Mecca?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0

"In his book entitled "The Bible Came from Arabia" published in 1984, Kamal Al Salibi caused a stir. He concluded that the events and narratives of the Old Testament did not originate in Palestine as internationally accepted but rather in the province of Asir, in the south-west of Arabia, precisely between Makkah and Yemen."

I see. So then the temple mount .........



and it's temple that YHWH had His people build in Jerusalem.....



was in actuality the Kaaba that the pagan Arabian deity named "Allah" had the Quraish build in the early 5th century AD!



Sorry my friend. Turning from 7th century fiction to 1984 fantasy will never magically create thousands of years of historical or archaeological record of Mecca.
And even more preposterously, THE Holy Land will never be moved 1200 miles, to Mecca!

You see your problem stems from believing that just because people are willing to say something, you should believe it - like believing Mohammed.

[resistingrexmundi]

First, you need to learn how to properly quote. Second that research has left out key factors. For instance. Abraham was from Ur of Chaldees. This land has a history dating back millenia that can be verified. Their were no overland trade routes at that time for Abraham to have used to get from Ur of Chaldees to a Mecca that didn't exist at the time, as such no water well sources to use on this supposed trip, and it completely negates the fact that their is NO ARCHAELOGICAL EVIDENCE Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD. And that doesn't even mention the fact that Ur of the Chaldees was located in Mesopotamia along the Kebar river in what is now modern day Iraq. As opposed to 300 miles south of Mecca which the research claims. I would also point out the research itself admits...

None of the present research work conducted an in-depth analytical study in the ancient Arabic historical literatures to provide Arabic historical evidences confirming that the Israeli prophets were actually Arabic people who reside in Arabia.

So swing and a miss.

[resistingrexmundi]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO VISIT the follwing website before you go any further with your conjecture
THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

Well even these guys admit this one bit of truth

None of the present research work conducted an in-depth analytical study in the ancient Arabic historical literatures to provide Arabic historical evidences confirming that the Israeli prophets were actually Arabic people who reside in Arabia.

[Peter]

Sorry my friend. Turning from 7th century fantasy to 1984 fantasy will never magically create thousands of years of historical or archaeological record of Mecca.
And even more preposterously, THE Holy Land will never be moved 1200 miles, to Mecca!

You see your problem stems from your willingness to believe something just because someone was willing to say it - like believing Mohammed for example.

[Mujaheed]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO VISIT the follwing website before you go any further with your conjecture
THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

Well even these guys admit this one bit of truth

None of the present research work conducted an in-depth analytical study in the ancient Arabic historical literatures to provide Arabic historical evidences confirming that the Israeli prophets were actually Arabic people who reside in Arabia.

LET ME EXPLAIN THE WORDS YOU READING: NO one has provided any work that disproves that the Israelis are actually Arabs!, none of the current work, least of which Rafat Amari, can dispute that the Israelis are actually Arabs, If you bother to Read further the writer goes on to explain why he is saying that the Bani Israel is actually ARABS!!! NABI EBRAHEEM IS AND ARAB, NABI ISGAAK, NABI YACOOB (JACOB RENAMED ISRAEL) IS AN ARAB. NABI MUSA IS AN ARAB AND NABI DAWOOD IS AN ARAB!!! BANI ISRAEL REFERS TO CHILDREN OF THE PERSON ISRAEL AND NOT THE LAND (FALLACY THAT BECAME A FACT)

[Mujaheed]

First, you need to learn how to properly quote. Second that research has left out key factors. For instance. Their were no overland trade routes at that time for Abraham to have used, as such no water sources to use on this supposed trip, and it completely negates the fact that their is NO ARCHAELOGICAL EVIDENCE Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD. And that doesn't even mention the fact that Ur of the Chaldees was located in Mesopotamia along the Kebar river in what is now modern day Iraq. As opposed to 300 miles south of Mecca which the research claims. I would also point out the research itself admits...

None of the present research work conducted an in-depth analytical study in the ancient Arabic historical literatures to provide Arabic historical evidences confirming that the Israeli prophets were actually Arabic people who reside in Arabia.

So swing and a miss.

WHAT HE IS SAYING THAT ALL YOUR ASSUMPTIONS THUS FAR HAS BEEN BASED ON FLAWED MISGUIDED INFORMATION, PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE AS I CAN SEE YOU STOPPED AT THIS LINE> WHAT THE ARTICLE SAYS IS THAT THE ENTIRE BIBLICAL ACCOUNT FROM ADAM TO MOSES TAKES PLACE IN ARABIA AND THE EXODUS IS TO JERUSALEM FROM ARABIA AFTER A TYRANT RULER EMERGES IN ARABIA.

PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE>

[Mujaheed]

"Abstract:

By the end of the last century, new stunning hypothesis emerged amongst theologians and historians advocating that the prevailing common understanding of the Israeli prophets' geographical homelands and journey routes were radically erroneous. The new hypothesis suggests that Asir province (situated in the southern part of Al-Surat Mountains, stretching alongside the western coastal border of Arabia, bounded between Yemen’s northern borders and the holy city of Makkah) was indeed the actual geographical theater which accommodated most of the Israeli prophets’ birthplaces, revelations, preaching, and burials. Subsequent research work narrowed down the prophets lands to Makkah county situated within the Hijaz and Asir Surat Mountains. This holy city emerged as the real and the only homeland of Abraham, Lot, Sara, Hagar and Ishmael as revealed in this paper. This whole hypothesis stemmed from the inconceivable inconsistencies in the biblical accounts of geographical landscapes traversed by the prophets, besides the lack of any supporting archeological evidences to date either in Palestine, Syria, Iraq or Egypt."

Gwaffaw, gwaffaw, guaffaw!!!!! Will the poor fellow stop at nothing? Has he no shame?

If the Holy Land was in Mecca, why do you suppose Mohammed would have bothered riding his flying donkey-mule all the way to the (at the time non-existent temple), that he lied about praying in, in Jerusalem? What was the ring Mohammed tethered his fanciful flying beast to, that was "used by the prophets", doing in Jerusalem if they were born, lived and were buried in Mecca?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0

"In his book entitled "The Bible Came from Arabia" published in 1984, Kamal Al Salibi caused a stir. He concluded that the events and narratives of the Old Testament did not originate in Palestine as internationally accepted but rather in the province of Asir, in the south-west of Arabia, precisely between Makkah and Yemen."

I see. So then the temple mount .........



and it's temple that YHWH had His people build in Jerusalem.....



was in actuality the Kaaba that the pagan Arabian deity named "Allah" had the Quraish build in the early 5th century AD!



Sorry my friend. Turning from 7th century fiction to 1984 fantasy will never magically create thousands of years of historical or archaeological record of Mecca.
And even more preposterously, THE Holy Land will never be moved 1200 miles, to Mecca!

You see your problem stems from your willingness to believe something just because someone was willing to say it - like believing Mohammed for example.

DO YOURSELF A FAVOUR AND READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE YOU SEEM TO HAVE AS U USUALLY DO GO OFF ON CONJECTURE BEFORE YOU HAVE THE CHANCE TO SEE THE TRUTH!!

[Mujaheed]

Sorry my friend. Turning from 7th century fantasy to 1984 fantasy will never magically create thousands of years of historical or archaeological record of Mecca.
And even more preposterously, THE Holy Land will never be moved 1200 miles, to Mecca!

You see your problem stems from your willingness to believe something just because someone was willing to say it - like believing Mohammed for example.

THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE!, YOUR CONJECTURE IS AGAIN OVERRIDING THE ABILITY TO FIND THE TRUTH.

THE ISRAELIS ARE ARABS, THE BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS TOOK PLACE IN ARABIA< THE EXODUS TOOK PLACE TOO JERUSALEM FROM MAKKAH, YOU FLEE FROM YOUR HOMELAND NOT TOO A HOMELAND!!!

[Peter]

Sorry my friend. Turning from 7th century fantasy to 1984 fantasy will never magically create thousands of years of historical or archaeological record of Mecca.
And even more preposterously, THE Holy Land will never be moved 1200 miles, to Mecca!

You see your problem stems from your willingness to believe something just because someone was willing to say it - like believing Mohammed for example.

THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE!, YOUR CONJECTURE IS AGAIN OVERRIDING THE ABILITY TO FIND THE TRUTH.

THE ISRAELIS ARE ARABS, THE BIBLICAL ACCOUNTS TOOK PLACE IN ARABIA< THE EXODUS TOOK PLACE TOO JERUSALEM FROM MAKKAH, YOU FLEE FROM YOUR HOMELAND NOT TOO A HOMELAND!!!

My friend, if the Holy Land was in Mecca, why do you suppose Mohammed would have bothered riding his flying donkey-mule all the way to the (at the time non-existent temple), that he lied about praying in, in Jerusalem? What was the ring Mohammed tethered his fanciful flying beast to, that was "used by the prophets", doing in Jerusalem if they were born, lived and were buried in Mecca?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0

[Mujaheed]

This post is copied here. To comment on it on it's own thread to avoid redundant posting please go to this link.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2026.0

One mans terrorist is another's freedom fighter.

My friend, where are YOUR SCHOLARS presenting evidence that Mohammed's religion ever existed before Mohammed?
http://www.historyofmecca.com/
That is of course, from other than the 7th and 8th century created Mohammedan fiction, labeled "tradition".

Go back in history and find out who the first people were that gathered true knowledge, who crossed the Mediterranean about 1000 years before any European dared?

Yes  superiority of knowledge still exists with the Muslims, ......

This post is copied here. To comment on it on it's own thread to avoid redundant posting please go to this link.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2026.0

HERE ARE THE SCHOLARS AND PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE>
THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

[/font][/font][/font][/color]

[Peter]

Go learn to quote.
I am going to consolidate all this into one thread so no need to post it multiple times.

[Mujaheed]

Go learn to quote.
I am going to consolidate all this into one thread so no need to post it multiple times.

THANK YOU

[Peter]

Let me know if you want a different title for your thread.

[Peter]

My friend, if the Holy Land was in Mecca, why do you suppose Mohammed bothered to ride his fanciful flying donkey-mule all the way to the (at the time non-existent) temple in Jerusalem that he also lied about entering in and praying in? What was the ring Mohammed tethered his fabled flying beast to, that was "used by the prophets", doing in Jerusalem if they were born, lived and were buried in Mecca?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:
It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of vision. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk.

So Mohammed flew on al-Buraq to the temple in Jerusalem, tied it up to a ring "the prophets" had used in the past, and went on in to the Temple to pray. Then he and his flying donkey-mule flew off to heaven, from the rock on the temple mount, to have a powwow with the prophets.

Remember, Abu Bakar (the first assistant of Mohammed who became his first Caliph) confirmed Mohammed's descriptions of the temple he had visited, because Abu Baker claimed he had once taken a journey to Jerusalem and had seen the temple himself, and remembered it to be just as Mohammed had described it.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!"

[resistingrexmundi]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO VISIT the follwing website before you go any further with your conjecture
THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

Well even these guys admit this one bit of truth

None of the present research work conducted an in-depth analytical study in the ancient Arabic historical literatures to provide Arabic historical evidences confirming that the Israeli prophets were actually Arabic people who reside in Arabia.

LET ME EXPLAIN THE WORDS YOU READING: NO one has provided any work that disproves that the Israelis are actually Arabs!, none of the current work, least of which Rafat Amari, can dispute that the Israelis are actually Arabs, If you bother to Read further the writer goes on to explain why he is saying that the Bani Israel is actually ARABS!!! NABI EBRAHEEM IS AND ARAB, NABI ISGAAK, NABI YACOOB (JACOB RENAMED ISRAEL) IS AN ARAB. NABI MUSA IS AN ARAB AND NABI DAWOOD IS AN ARAB!!! BANI ISRAEL REFERS TO CHILDREN OF THE PERSON ISRAEL AND NOT THE LAND (FALLACY THAT BECAME A FACT)

Let me explain something to you. As I pointed out before Abraham came from Ur of Chaldees, which was in Mesopotamia, which is modern day Iraq. That is a far cry from Arabia let alone 300 miles south of Mecca. Furthermore such speculation is void of facts as I have shown you given their is NO HISTORICAL OR ARCHAELOGICAL record of Mecca prior to 4th century AD and those words you tried to correct me on admit that the PRESENT research work they were conducting doesn't take any ancient Arabic historical literatures to provide Arabic historical evidences confirming that the Israeli prophets were actually Arabic people who reside in Arabia. That is a clear cut statement. Later the site says this to which you refer

In addition to addressing the above issues, this paper concludes that Arabic historical literature do contains substantial evidences indeed supporting the hypothesis in question.

But for the reasons stated above this hypothesis fails miserably. So you are left with research that doesn't prove anything and a hypothesis that can't. You can twist it to suit your mind if you wish but that is just what you are doing.

[resistingrexmundi]

WHAT HE IS SAYING THAT ALL YOUR ASSUMPTIONS THUS FAR HAS BEEN BASED ON FLAWED MISGUIDED INFORMATION, PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE AS I CAN SEE YOU STOPPED AT THIS LINE> WHAT THE ARTICLE SAYS IS THAT THE ENTIRE BIBLICAL ACCOUNT FROM ADAM TO MOSES TAKES PLACE IN ARABIA AND THE EXODUS IS TO JERUSALEM FROM ARABIA AFTER A TYRANT RULER EMERGES IN ARABIA.

PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE ARTICLE>

And what I have pointed out to you is that this man is presenting a hypothesis that has gained NO support since its' publication in 1984. The reason is a hypothesis will always remain a hypothesis until their is historical or archaelogical evidence to support the hypothesis. NO SUCH EVIDENCE has been found. Peter has already addressed the more obvious problems with this hypothesis.

[Mujaheed]

Sorry my friend. Turning from 7th century fantasy to 1984 fantasy will never magically create thousands of years of historical or archaeological record of Mecca.
And even more preposterously, THE Holy Land will never be moved 1200 miles, to Mecca!

You see your problem stems from your willingness to believe something just because someone was willing to say it - like believing Mohammed for example.

YOU DID NOT READ ARTICLE< DID YOU, YOU GLANCED OVER IT AND STOPPED AT THE LINE OF THE PUBLICATION!!!
READ THE ARTICLE AND MAKE YOUR COMMENTS.

[Mujaheed]

My friend, if the Holy Land was in Mecca, why do you suppose Mohammed bothered to ride his fanciful flying donkey-mule all the way to the (at the time non-existent) temple in Jerusalem that he also lied about entering in and praying in? What was the ring Mohammed tethered his fabled flying beast to, that was "used by the prophets", doing in Jerusalem if they were born, lived and were buried in Mecca?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:
It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of vision. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk.

So Mohammed flew on al-Buraq to the temple in Jerusalem, tied it up to a ring "the prophets" had used in the past, and went on in to the Temple to pray. Then he and his flying donkey-mule flew off to heaven, from the rock on the temple mount, to have a powwow with the prophets.

Remember, Abu Bakar (the first assistant of Mohammed who became his first Caliph) confirmed Mohammed's descriptions of the temple he had visited, because Abu Baker claimed he had once taken a journey to Jerusalem and had seen the temple himself, and remembered it to be just as Mohammed had described it.

"Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive!"

Jerusalem- means Holy Sanctuary, and it is not an are protected by ALLAH, it is sacred but unlike MAKKAH housing the beit'u ALLAH (HOUSE OF ALLAH)  Jerusalem has been destroyed twice, besieged 23 times, attacked 52 times, and captured and recaptured 44 times.[12] The oldest part of the city was settled in the 4th millennium BCE, making Jerusalem one of the oldest cities in the world.[13]

The visit of the prophet clearly demonstrates that all the Prophets of ALLAH are muslim, lived and were sent by ALLAH to mankind, we do not deny any Prophethood of the OT prophets, we do deny the false claims made by subsequent writers that have misled (as Jesus told they did)  the masses. We deny the interpretation given by PAGAN writers (GREEKS AND ROMANS) that have changed the very Geography of the BIBLE. READ THE ARTICLE< IT IS NOT AN HYPOTHESIS IT IS A STUDY!!

[Mujaheed]

YOU MIGHT WANT TO VISIT the follwing website before you go any further with your conjecture
THE REAL STORY CAN BE FOUND AT
http://www.tajdeed.org/article.aspx?id=10334

Well even these guys admit this one bit of truth

None of the present research work conducted an in-depth analytical study in the ancient Arabic historical literatures to provide Arabic historical evidences confirming that the Israeli prophets were actually Arabic people who reside in Arabia.

LET ME EXPLAIN THE WORDS YOU READING: NO one has provided any work that disproves that the Israelis are actually Arabs!, none of the current work, least of which Rafat Amari, can dispute that the Israelis are actually Arabs, If you bother to Read further the writer goes on to explain why he is saying that the Bani Israel is actually ARABS!!! NABI EBRAHEEM IS AND ARAB, NABI ISGAAK, NABI YACOOB (JACOB RENAMED ISRAEL) IS AN ARAB. NABI MUSA IS AN ARAB AND NABI DAWOOD IS AN ARAB!!! BANI ISRAEL REFERS TO CHILDREN OF THE PERSON ISRAEL AND NOT THE LAND (FALLACY THAT BECAME A FACT)

Let me explain something to you. As I pointed out before Abraham came from Ur of Chaldees, which was in Mesopotamia, which is modern day Iraq. That is a far cry from Arabia let alone 300 miles south of Mecca. Furthermore such speculation is void of facts as I have shown you given their is NO HISTORICAL OR ARCHAELOGICAL record of Mecca prior to 4th century AD and those words you tried to correct me on admit that the PRESENT research work they were conducting doesn't take any ancient Arabic historical literatures to provide Arabic historical evidences confirming that the Israeli prophets were actually Arabic people who reside in Arabia. That is a clear cut statement. Later the site says this to which you refer

In addition to addressing the above issues, this paper concludes that Arabic historical literature do contains substantial evidences indeed supporting the hypothesis in question.

But for the reasons stated above this hypothesis fails miserably. So you are left with research that doesn't prove anything and a hypothesis that can't. You can twist it to suit your mind if you wish but that is just what you are doing.

I Suppose the language and interpretation and lineage are all made up by the writer? Misr is Egypt, no evidence exists in that regard, ask yourself a Question, how would you rewrite the history if you wer a pagan Greek or Roman and your knowledge was limited to that region, would you not speculate on the geography?

I know you did not read all 48 pages,

[resistingrexmundi]

I Suppose the language and interpretation and lineage are all made up by the writer? Misr is Egypt, no evidence exists in that regard, ask yourself a Question, how would you rewrite the history if you wer a pagan Greek or Roman and your knowledge was limited to that region, would you not speculate on the geography?

I know you did not read all 48 pages,

We do not have to speculate on where Egypt was. There is an overabundance of archaelogical evidence on where it was and still is today. Furthermore Greeks and Romans traveled the world and created the most advanced roads the ancient world had ever seen. They were not limited to their geographic location. They knew from first hand experience where Egypt, Israel and even Arabia was. The only one who was limited to their region was people like Muhammad and the followers who created a whole history of the world in the 7th and 8th centuries. Furthermore who do you think had better knowledge of their areas, the people who lived in them at the time the events took place or some writers hundreds of miles away centuries removed from the events in question? As far as the article I am about half way through it and I will finish it in time. I have other obligations that demand my time. But even so what I have read so far is so laughably wrong I doubt I will be convinced. Pete and I have already outlined huge problems with this man's HYPOTHESIS. Namely the lack of evidence for Mecca existing before the 4th century AD. Throw in the abundance of evidence for Egypt, Israel and Ur's location then this hypothesis is a joke at best and bad scholarship at worst. It is yet another person's vain attempt to reconcile 7th and 8th century fiction with actual evidence.