Islam, Muslim / Christian Forum - Welcome All

Allah - the one ... who confounds all human understanding.

Isn't it peculiar that they can say they believe this, yet when they come to this forum they act as though "Allah" should be as simple to understand as could be conceived by the mind of an illiterate 7th century southwest Arabian desert dweller.

That they can't even afford to try to begin to understand the mystery of God solely because of Mohammed.
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Frankly nothing surprises me about my encouters with them anymore. I have yet to have a single muslim explain to me why it is that we as humans are so complex that we are made of 3 parts (mind, body, spirit) that have three distinct functions (process, facilitate, inform) and yet God would not be even more complex.

Brother resistingrexmundi, no muslim can answer that. Because muslims think Creator is much more complex than the any created one can ever imagine.  ;)

Hi Bornao, and welcome to the forum! :)

Quote from: Bornao on February 29, 2012, 09:45:45 AM
Brother resistingrexmundi, no muslim can answer that. Because muslims think Creator is much more complex than the any created one can ever imagine.  ;)

Then you can answer, and you did answer. You agreed with him that God is even more complex than man who is composed of 3 parts. I realize you addressed this to resisting, so just let me know if you want me to defer to him.

I'm sure we all agree that the only way we can know about God is through the way he revealed Himself to us. Otherwise - so you don't have to wait for him to answer if you want to chat now - my question for you is, do you believe "Allah" has a spirit?

Sura 32.9: But He fashioned him in due proportion, and breathed into him something of His spirit. And He gave you (the faculties of) hearing and sight and feeling (and understanding): little thanks do ye give!

Sura 15.29: "When I have fashioned him (in due proportion) and breathed into him of My spirit, fall ye down in obeisance unto him."

Thanks for the nice welcome. :) I am open to all friendly comments. And yes, I belive in Creator. ‘Allah’ in the quran, ‘Elah’ in the Bible or call Lord or use any good names you want.
And my answer no, Creator has THE spirit, not has A spirit. Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to correct you, but this is the answer. 
Please, go on...

Quote from: Bornao on February 29, 2012, 12:24:57 PM
Thanks for the nice welcome. :) I am open to all friendly comments. And yes, I belive in Creator. ‘Allah’ in the quran, ‘Elah’ in the Bible or call Lord or use any good names you want.
And my answer no, Creator has THE spirit, not has A spirit. Don’t get me wrong, I am not trying to correct you, but this is the answer. 
Please, go on...

THE spirit is fine with me - even better. It's nice we begin in agreement. We both believe in two parts of the Godhead. God and His Spirit. Jews do too.

Exd 31:3 And I have filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, and in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship,

Are you familiar with this passage when God manifest, or revealed Himself, to Moses through a burning bush?

Exodus 3:1 Now Moses kept the flock of Jethro his father in law, the priest of Midian: and he led the flock to the backside of the desert, and came to the mountain of God, [even] to Horeb.   2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush [was] not consumed.   3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.   4 And when the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here [am] I.   5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest [is] holy ground.   6 Moreover he said, I [am] the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Exd&c=3&v=1&t=KJV#1

It’s nice to have an agreement, but we couldn’t have. Creator is much more complex than we can ever imagine. Let's say we are talking about the sun. In the middle of the daytime it’s everywhere. It’s THE light of the sun. Light is not a thing, and you can’t count, and it is not a part of the sun. Even we can say it’s a part of the sun, we can’t say the parts of the sun is sun and the sunlight. I mean, we can’t say sun= sun+sunlight. And we are talkin about the Creator which is not a thing, which has no atoms, no protons etc… It’s is everwhere and it’s surrounds every created ones. I mean we can’t even say Creator is one. In Quran Surah Ihlas 112/1,  it says, “Kul huvallahu ehad. Not, “Kul huvallahu vahd.”  Vahd means, one. Ehad word does not have an exact meaning in English, but the closer meaning is, one and only. I can see you are a clever person and I am sure you can understand what I mean when you think about it. Sorry for writing to much.  :) Sometimes my fingers dosen't know where to stop.

And my answer to your question is, yes, I am familiar with the passage.

Please go on...

Quote from: Bornao on March 01, 2012, 02:15:57 AM
It’s nice to have an agreement, but we couldn’t have. Creator is much more complex than we can ever imagine.

I agree.

Quote from: Bornao on March 01, 2012, 02:15:57 AMLet's say we are talking about the sun. In the middle of the daytime it’s everywhere. It’s THE light of the sun. Light is not a thing, and you can’t count, and it is not a part of the sun. Even we can say it’s a part of the sun, we can’t say the parts of the sun is sun and the sunlight. I mean, we can’t say sun= sun+sunlight. And we are talkin about the Creator which is not a thing, which has no atoms, no protons etc… It’s is everwhere and it’s surrounds every created ones. I mean we can’t even say Creator is one. In Quran Surah Ihlas 112/1,  it says, “Kul huvallahu ehad. Not, “Kul huvallahu vahd.”  Vahd means, one. Ehad word does not have an exact meaning in English, but the closer meaning is, one and only.

Same as in the Gospel: Mark 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Quote from: Bornao on March 01, 2012, 02:15:57 AMI can see you are a clever person and I am sure you can understand what I mean when you think about it. Sorry for writing to much.  :) Sometimes my fingers dosen't know where to stop.

And my answer to your question is, yes, I am familiar with the passage.

Please go on...

I'm going to get a little bit long here myself, but just so things are as clear as I can make them. In that passage God revealed Himself to Moses through a burning bush. It didn't make Him any less God, and God didn't stop being God to turn into a burning bush instead, it's just a way He chose to reveal Himself to Moses, when He wanted to communicate with Him.

Are you familiar with the Genesis 18 passage in which the Lord appeared to Abraham?

Genesis 18:1 (http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Gen&c=18&v=1&t=KJV#top) And the LORD appeared unto him in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day;

Checking Strong's definitions
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

And the LORD
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
03068 Y@hovah {yeh-ho-vaw'}
from 01961; TWOT - 484a; n pr dei
AV - LORD 6510, GOD 4, JEHOVAH 4, variant 1; 6519
Jehovah = "the existing One"
1) the proper name of the one true God
1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136

"LORD" translated from the Hebrew, "Jehovah" the "existing One", that is, God Himself "appeared" to Abraham.
Before the Jews surrendered to a first century doctrine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#In_later_Judaism) in which men declared that the name Yahweh was too sacred to say or write, the tetragrammaton YHWH occurred in this spot, and in 6,827 other places (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetragrammaton#Occurrences_and_uses) in Hebrew scripture. "YHWH" is the name of God.

2 And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men stood by him: and when he saw [them], he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground,

Three "men" stood by him.

men
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0582 'enowsh {en-oshe'}
from 0605; TWOT - 136a; n m
AV - man 520, certain 10, husbands 3, some 3, merchantmen 2,
persons 2, misc 24; 564
1) man, mortal man, person, mankind
1a) of an individual
1b) men (collective)
1c) man, mankind

So Abraham "bowed himself toward the ground".....

3 And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

My Lord
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0136 'Adonay {ad-o-noy'}
am emphatic form of 0113; TWOT - 27b; n m
AV - Lord 431, lord 2, God 1; 434
1) my lord, lord
1a) of men
1b) of God
2) Lord - title, spoken in place of Yahweh in Jewish display of reverence

As in the prior case with the name Jehovah substituting for Yahweh, the substitute title "Adonay" is used in this spot. It can mean THE Lord or lower case lord as in master. Whether Yahweh or Adonay occurred in the original Hebrew is obviously a moot point considering the context makes obvious who Abraham is meeting with.

3 And said, My Lord, {Adonay} if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant:

Some suggest that the "man" in our passage was an angel but are we to believe that Abraham thought himself a "servant" of an angel, rather than Yahweh, particularly considering all the direct contact Abraham had with Yahweh? No. Nor do the titles used in this passage allow it.
Abraham continues....

4 Let a little water, I pray you, be fetched, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree: 5 And I will fetch a morsel of bread, and comfort ye your hearts; after that ye shall pass on: for therefore are ye come to your servant. And they said, So do, as thou hast said.

Water is not only fetched so these men can wash their feet, but Abraham offers the men food, and they accept.

8 And he took butter, and milk, and the calf which he had dressed, and set [it] before them; and he stood by them under the tree, and they did eat.

And so these men - one unquestionably being Yahweh Himself - did eat. Later in the passage we read...

22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD. {Jehovah (Yaweh)} 23 And Abraham drew near, and said, Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?

So who has the power to destroy a city of men?

24 Peradventure there be fifty righteous within the city: wilt thou also destroy and not spare the place for the fifty righteous that [are] therein? 25 That be far from thee to do after this manner, to slay the righteous with the wicked: and that the righteous should be as the wicked, that be far from thee: Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

Who was the "man", that Abraham recognized as God, that is "the Judge of all the earth"? The same one that dined.

26 And the LORD {Jehovah (Yaweh)} said, If I find in Sodom fifty righteous within the city, then I will spare all the place for their sakes.

Who had the power and authority to spare Sodom? The answer is obvious. Abraham did not see God, but Abraham did have a face to face meeting with Yahewh as He manifest, or revealed Himself, through the flesh of a man. God was no less God, and He didn't turn into a man instead of God, it was just a way He chose to show Himself to Abraham.

Here's a good study tool if you want to check Strong's definitions to see which original word was translated, and much more: http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

 Some suggest that the "man" in our passage was an angel but are we to believe that Abraham thought himself a "servant" of an angel, rather than Yahweh, particularly considering all the direct contact Abraham had with Yahweh? No. Nor do the titles used in this passage allow it.
Abraham continues....

Quran says, they were the Messengers. Here is the translation of that part.

69.   There came Our Messengers to Abraham with glad tidings. They said, "Peace!" He answered, "Peace!" and hastened to entertain them with a roasted calf.

70.   But when he saw their hands not reaching towards the (meal), he felt some mistrust of them, and conceived a fear of them. They said: "Fear not: We have been sent against the people of Lut."

71.   And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: But We gave her glad tidings of Isaac, and after him, of Jacob.

72.   She said: "Alas for me! shall I bear a child, seeing I am an old woman, and my husband here is an old man? That would indeed be a wonderful thing!"

73.   They said: "Dost thou wonder at Allah's decree? The grace of Allah and His blessings on you, o ye people of the house! for He is indeed worthy of all praise, full of all glory!"

74.   When fear had passed from (the mind of) Abraham and the glad tidings had reached him, he began to plead with Us for L�t's people.

75.   For Abraham was, without doubt, forbearing (of faults), compassionate, and given to penitence.

76.   O Abraham! Seek not this. The decree of thy Lord hath gone forth: for them there cometh a chastisement that cannot be turned back!

77.   When Our Messengers came to Lut, he was grieved on their account and felt himself powerless (to protect) them. He said: "This is a distressful day."

78.   And his people came rushing towards him, and they had been long in the habit of practicing abominations. He said: "O my People! Here are my daughters: they are purer for you (if ye marry)! Now fear Allah, and cover me not with disgrace about my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?"

79.   They said: "Well dost thou know we have no need of thy daughters: indeed thou knowest quite well what we want!"

80.   He said: "Would that I had power to suppress you or that I could betake myself to some powerful support."

81.   (The Messengers) said: "O Lut! We are Messengers from thy Lord! By no means shall they reach thee! now travel with thy family while yet a part of the night remains, and let not any of you look back: but thy wife (will remain behind): To her will happen what happens to the people. Morning is their time appointed. Isn't it the morning close?"

This translation is pretty close to Quran. As you see they were only messenger of the Creator. They looked like men and Hz.Abraham was the servant of the massage, not servant of them. He stopped arguing with them as soon as he understood that they were only carrying the message of the Creator.
      

Because of the hard snow and work I couldn’t have change to finish my comment. If you excuse me I would like to comment tomarrow.

Quote from: Bornao on March 01, 2012, 09:03:40 AMThis translation is pretty close to Quran. As you see they were only messenger of the Creator.

At least we can agree that one account is necessarily false. Thus either Moses was a false prophet, or Muhammad who came along 2,000 years later and contradicted him, was a false prophet.

Either the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, as revealed through all of His prophets and witnesses, that his people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years is false.

Or lone Muhammad's stand-alone 23 year 7th century record is false.

As you already know this passage isn't the only difference, since 600 years after the crucifixion of Christ Muhammad professed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel, as revealed through the apostles, disciples and witnesses of the Messiah in the Gospel.

Let's begin investigating the differences by exploring the evidence. The archaeological evidence ever increasingly confirms the scriptures (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0oG7hvStFBPXwUAozRXNyoA?p=archaeology+confirms+bible&fr2=sb-top&fr=yfp-t-701&type_param=) to be a reliable record of ancient history (we have a section devoted to this that is just beginning to be populated with threads).
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=68.0

Ancient Arabian towns are also well attested in the historical and archaeological records of Arabia, even including tiny towns that came and went within a couple centuries before the Christian era.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1132.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1138.0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Towns_in_Saudi_Arabia

Please present some historical and archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca existed prior to the 4th century AD.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 01, 2012, 02:53:38 PM
Because of the hard snow and work I couldn’t have change to finish my comment. If you excuse me I would like to comment tomarrow.

No need to even mention it. The nice thing is we can come an go as our schedules allow, and the conversation will be available for us to continue, in days or weeks - barring any more Islamist cyber terror attacks.

Quote from: Peter on March 01, 2012, 06:54:30 PM
At least we can agree that one account is necessarily false. Thus either Moses was a false prophet, or Muhammad who came along 2,000 years later and contradicted him, was a false prophet.

First of all, yes, Allah talked to Hz.Moses. And yes, talking to man dose not make Allah less or something bad, it showes how much valuable Hz.Moses is. (Not was, Peace be upon him, Hz.Moses is stil valuable and will be for ever.)
If you are interested, here is the translation of Surah Taha 20/9-18 (It is a translation, not Quran.)

Starts like this…

9.   Has the story of Moses reached thee?
   
10.   Behold, he saw a fire: So he said to his family, "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; perhaps I can bring you some burning brand therefrom, or find some guidance at the fire."

11.   But when he came to the fire, he was called: "O Moses!
   
12.   "Verily I am thy Lord! therefore put off thy shoes: thou art in the sacred valley Tuw�.

13.   "I have chosen thee: listen, then, to the inspiration (given to thee).

14.   "Verily, I am Allah. There is no god but I: So serve thou Me (only), and establish regular prayer for My remembrance.

15.   "Verily the Hour is coming - I have almost kept it hidden - for every soul to receive its reward by the measure of its Endeavor.

16.   "Therefore let not such as believe not therein but follow their own lusts, divert thee therefrom, lest thou perish!"..

17.   "And what is that in thy right hand, O Moses?"

18.   He said, "It is my rod: on it I lean; with it I beat down fodder for my flocks; and in it I find other uses."

…and goes on…

Translation of Surah Woman 4/164

164.   Of some messengers We have already told thee the story; of others We have not;- and to Moses Allah spoke direct;-


I can give more examples of this, but non of them says Allah taked the shape of a man, an animal or a tree or something else.

Moses (Peace be upon him) was not a false prophet, just like Muhammed (Peace be upon him.)
The subject was about the Creator, if you want to change the subject to the books that’s okay form me. I can give lots of evidence which proofs that Quran is not a word of a human being. Like Surah Ya seen 36/39-40

39.   And the Moon,- We have measured for her stations (to traverse) till she returns like the old (and withered) lower part of a date-stalk.

Check this link: http://www.bpastro.org/index.php?page=what-if-anything-is-standing-still you can easily see the orbit of the moon is not round.

40.   It is not permitted to the Sun to catch up the Moon, nor can the Night outstrip the Day: each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit (according to Law).

Does Sun swims? Do they know that at that time, in 600? With which telescope can they see that?

At Surah Cow 2/29

29.   It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Then He turned to the heavens, and skys made them into seven layers; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

At Surah Nuh 71/15

15.   "'See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens, sky one above another,

At Surah The Scatterers 51/7

7.   By the Sky with (its) numerous Paths,

I can go and on… How did they know that sky has layers? Interesting isn’t it?

At Surah The Companies 39/5

5.   He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions): He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night: He has subjected the sun and the moon (to His law): each one follows a course for a time appointed. Is not He the Exalted in Power - He Who forgives again and again?

If you check in Quran you will see the word, “yukevviru” Which means covering something round. In the years 1600 Church was going to hang Galileo Galilei because of saying the “The World is round.”

At Surah The Prophets 21/32

32.   And We have made the skies, as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!

Well guarded skies… they must realy have good telescopes.

At Surah The Iron 57/25 gökler

25.   We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron, in which is great might, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, Unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of Strength, Exalted in Might.

Did you know our world, even our star, the Sun can’t produce iron and it’s out of our solar system. 

At Surah The Night Comer 86/1-4

1.   By the Sky and the Night-Visitant (therein);-

2.   And what will explain to thee what the Night-Visitant is?-

3.   (It is) the Star of piercing brightness;-

4.   There is no soul but has a protector over it.

Check what the pustar is.


Surah The Covering Up 81/17-18

17.   And the Night as it dissipates;



18.   And the Dawn as it breathes away.   

How did the know the nature starts breathing in morning?

At Surah The Prophets 21/31

31.   And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may find their way.


At Surah The Rock 15/22

22.   And We send the fecundating winds, then cause the rain to descend from the sky, therewith providing you with water (in abundance), though ye are not the guardians of its stores.


Firm mountains and fecundating winds? At that time somebody most realy have fun with these. But now a days we can’t. Check your geography lessons.

Trust me. I can give many, many examples that proofs Quran is not a word of a man.

Ya. Quran's "miracles"
http://www.islam-watch.org/Amarkhan/Miracles-of-Quran-Exposed.htm
Pure taqiyyah perpetrated by abusing an honest scientist William W Hay on Quran phony miracles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7znvH95HZVI

Quote from: Bornao on March 02, 2012, 10:07:20 AMDoes Sun swims?

Apparently it would have to learn how to pretty quickly since it sets in a pool of murky water:
Surah18.85 One (such) way he followed, 86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
and ants talk
Quran 27.17 And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts,- of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks.18 At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."
http://www.petewaldo.com/fables_fantasies.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 02, 2012, 10:07:20 AMMoses (Peace be upon him) was not a false prophet, just like Muhammed (Peace be upon him.)

Sorry. You can't have it both ways. Moses was inspired to write the account of Yahweh speaking to Abraham in the form of a man. Abraham referred to the man using the NAME of the ONE true God of the scriptures YHWH - NOT as some "messenger" as you suggest. Nor did a "messenger" have the power to destroy Sodom.
So your post necessarily indicates you believe Moses (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14446-torah) was a false prophet, because you believe Muhammad instead of Moses.

If Muhammad was not a false prophet then ALL of the prophets as revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind were false - including Jesus.

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

There is no subject we can discuss that is more important than Muhammad's/your denial of the whole subject of the Gospel, and rejection of the blood that would save you. Jesus was crucified just as prophesied by Jesus Himself in the prior verses, as well as by Old Testament prophets.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Nothing else matters as long as you deny the subject of the Gospel.

Quote from: Bornao on March 02, 2012, 10:07:20 AM
Trust me. I can give many, many examples that proofs Quran is not a word of a man.

Then rather than ignore my post, and my request, why don't you begin by providing us with some archaeological and historical evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD? If you can find no evidence, then simply admit that there is no such evidence available, and we can move forward.

Regarding the Quran not being the word of men, Muhammad even tacitly admitted that Jabr helped him write much of the Quran - just as the Quraish rightly accused him of - when Muhammad added a sura to deny that fact in a transparent attempt at damage control.

Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

As if Muhammad could have spent all those long hours with a foreigner - Jabr - if Jabr hadn't spoken Arabic as a second language.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Authors of the Quran:
http://inthenameofallah.org/Authors%20of%20the%20Quran.html

There is no point in quoting further from a book filled with blasphemy that directly contradicts the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, until you can show good reason that we should reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the scriptures, and the whole subject of the Gospel, to follow Muhammad.
Again, please start with historical evidence that suggests that Mecca existed prior to the 4th century AD.

The historical record contained in scripture, that is confirmed by the archaeological evidence (http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/amen/a/122710-CW-Archaeological-Evidence-About-The-Story-Of-Abraham-In-The-Bible.htm), tells us that Abraham's travels were in the opposite direction of, and never within 1200 kilometers of, where Mecca was eventually settled in the 4th century AD.
After you present historical and archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD, could you:

1. please explain to us how and why Abraham wandered across 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, desert with his wife Sarah's handmaiden Hagar, from the home Abraham shared with his wife Sarah and Isaac in Hebron (http://www.bibleplaces.com/hebron.htm), to where Mecca was eventually built, a thousand years before the historical record tells us the first caravan was able to make the trip along the Red Sea?

2. While you are at it perhaps you can also explain how Ishmael wandered across the same 1200 kilometers of harsh, barren, untraveled, unexplored desert, in time to help Isaac bury Abraham near his home in Hebron.

(http://www.petewaldo.com/04f4e680.gif)

(http://www.historyofmecca.com/021bc530.png)

QuoteIn the years 1600 Church was going to hang Galileo Galilei because of saying the “The World is round.”

The issue wasn't the roundness of the earth it was the centrality of the earth as opposed to a heliocentric model of the solar system. Furthermore, I would not throw stones in a glass house when according to Muhammad the sun sets in a muddy pool. And the Bible already covered the issue of the earth's round shape.

Isa 40:22    It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 02, 2012, 01:51:32 PM

QuoteIn the years 1600 Church was going to hang Galileo Galilei because of saying the “The World is round.”

The issue wasn't the roundness of the earth it was the centrality of the earth as opposed to a heliocentric model of the solar system. Furthermore, I would not throw stones in a glass house when according to Muhammad the sun sets in a muddy pool. And the Bible already covered the issue of the earth's round shape.

Isa 40:22    It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

And that from a guy in perhaps the most anti-intellectual organization in world history, that remains so to this day, as evidenced by the madrassas.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=814.0

The anti-intellectualism of the Roman Church is indeed one of the parallels it shared with Islam.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=512.0
"In an age of barbarism the popes led the pack, in an age of enlightenment they trailed the field." - Peter de Rosa -  Vicars of Christ

[Sorry. You can't have it both ways. Moses was inspired to write the account of Yahweh speaking to Abraham manifest as a man. So your prior post indicates you believe Moses was a liar because you believe Muhammad.]

At translation of Surah The Cow 2/285

285.   The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."


Yes, I can’t have both ways. But, there is only one way and muslims belive all the prophets of Creator is carring the same message. No muslim is a muslim if he or she says Moses(Peace be upon him) or Jesus(puh) or Nuh(puh) or Lut(puh) or Abraham(puh) (or any other prophets) was a liar. All of the prophets of the Creator are valuable for us. The point is the message which the bring has been changed. Even if you take the translation of Quran as Quran the message is not he same. If you can speak an other languge other than English chose a song and try to translate it. You can’t clearly succeed.


[If Muhammad was not a false prophet then ALL of the prophets of the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind were false - including Jesus.]


False? Who said that?


At Surah The Food 5/47

47.   Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.


At Surah The Family of Imran 3/113

113.   Not all of them are alike: Among the People of the Book are a portion that stand (for the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.


The People of the book means: The people who call themselves Christian and Jewish.
Buy the way

159.   Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth.



You are responsible of what you believe. You are thinking about the nonmuslim people. What about the others who hasn’t heard of any religion. In Quran Allah says, the ones who hasn’t heard the truth is no resposible.


[Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm]


Surah Marium (Mery) 19/33

33.   "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!



Sometimes translations are really guiding wrong. Watch the sentence, “The day that I die.” I am sure he is still alive. And I am sure he will come and guide us again.


[Quote from: Bornao on Today at 07:07:20 AM
Trust me. I can give many, many examples that proofs Quran is not a word of a man.

Then rather than ignore my last post, and my request, why don't you begin by providing us with some archaeological and historical evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD?]

Sorry for that. I am just trying to stick on the subject. Didn’t mean to ignore you. At that link, if it says Mecca existed before the 4th century and want met o comment this. My answer is yes without reading them. Mecca existed before the 4th century. Even the Kaba existed before 4th century. (Before there was a city.) Here is Surah The Caw 2/127


127.   And remember Abraham and Ismail raised the foundations of the House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing."


96.   The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all the worlds.

The house which Adem has build for praying.

I think, you are asking how did Hz.Mumammed understand the language of Jabr. Is that right?
The answer is so easy that I am not sure I get the question right. If I got it wrong forgive me. Here is the answer: Jabr, it is Gabriel in English. Gabriel is the angel of vahiys. The angel who was created or who was charged for carrying the words of the Creator. Which language do you thing the angels are using? English? Spanish, Arabic? I thing your answer will be, “No.” The language they use is different from the human beings uses. But trust me, if an angel talk to you, you will understand. If that happens, I can’t imagine you saying to angel, “I have no idea what you are talking about.” 

I tougt, we were going to comment one by one. Please be patient. Let me respond and than make a comment. Now my commet is under yours which I haven't read. :)

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:42:58 AM
I tougt, we were going to comment one by one.

By that do you mean one person or one topic?

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:42:58 AMPlease be patient. Let me respond and than make a comment.

When you joined the forum you agreed to:

"When you begin, post a thread or comment, or even a couple, trying to include just a point or two, then wait for a response, and then reply to responses. In other words don't just spam away while ignoring replies of other members to your posts."

Way back at this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12444#msg12444
I requested that you
"Please present some historical and archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca existed prior to the 4th century AD."

Please revisit that post and please respond to that request now, before posting anything else.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12444#msg12444

Quote from: Peter on March 02, 2012, 10:13:08 AM
Ya. Quran's "miracles"
http://www.islam-watch.org/Amarkhan/Miracles-of-Quran-Exposed.htm
Pure taqiyyah perpetrated by abusing an honest scientist William W Hay on Quran phony miracles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7znvH95HZV

I checked the link. The funny part which I have been saying from the begining every book, even songs has translatin problems. I will only commed the first one which I saw. At surah The Cow 2/29

At Surah Cow 2/29

29.   It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Then He turned to the heavens, and skys made them into seven layers; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

Ask any Arab what the word seven exactly in your language. He will not say, “seb” is just a number. It is also means “lots off.”
So can’t read all that link. If you have any questions about it ask me directly. I would be happy to answer if I know the answer.

Quote from: Bornao on March 02, 2012, 10:07:20 AMDoes Sun swims?

Apparently it would have to learn how to pretty quickly since it sets in a pool of murky water:
Surah18.85 One (such) way he followed, 86 Until, when he reached the setting of the sun, he found it set in a spring of murky water: Near it he found a People: We said: "O Zul-qarnain! (thou hast authority,) either to punish them, or to treat them with kindness."
and ants talk
[/quote]
Wrong Surah number, but that’s ok. It looks meaningless in English. (Funny buy the way.) But it’s not meaningless in Arabic. The point he stopped at the end of his journey to the east, (which he doesn’t want to go any further) what he saw the sun is setting at he horizon line of a murky water. It’s meaningless going any further if you see that. By the way the word murky is not exactly right there. It’s more like “muddy.” Any way…
Another point here the sun can also mean, “The truthness.” Like: he stopped at the point where he saw the mud is trying to cover the truthness.” If you go on reading that part you can get it.



Quran 27.17 And before Solomon were marshalled his hosts,- of Jinns and men and birds, and they were all kept in order and ranks.18 At length, when they came to a (lowly) valley of ants, one of the ants said: "O ye ants, get into your habitations, lest Solomon and his hosts crush you (under foot) without knowing it."
http://www.petewaldo.com/fables_fantasies.htm

Don’t get me wrong, but I am really a busy person. I can’t read all that links. Please be kind to write your short comment. And than I answer it.

Quote from: Bornao on March 02, 2012, 10:07:20 AMMoses (Peace be upon him) was not a false prophet, just like Muhammed (Peace be upon him.)

Sorry. You can't have it both ways. Moses was inspired to write the account of Yahweh speaking to Abraham in the form of a man. Abraham referred to the man using the NAME of the ONE true God of the scriptures YHWH - NOT as some "messenger" as you suggest. Nor did a "messenger" have the power to destroy Sodom.
So your post necessarily indicates you believe Moses (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/14446-torah) was a false prophet, because you believe Muhammad instead of Moses.

If Muhammad was not a false prophet then ALL of the prophets as revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind were false - including Jesus.

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

There is no subject we can discuss that is more important than Muhammad's/your denial of the whole subject of the Gospel, and rejection of the blood that would save you. Jesus was crucified just as prophesied by Jesus Himself in the prior verses, as well as by Old Testament prophets.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Nothing else matters as long as you deny the subject of the Gospel.

Quote from: Bornao on March 02, 2012, 10:07:20 AM
Trust me. I can give many, many examples that proofs Quran is not a word of a man.

Then rather than ignore my post, and my request, why don't you begin by providing us with some archaeological and historical evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD? If you can find no evidence, then simply admit that there is no such evidence available, and we can move forward.

Yes, Mecca existed before the 4th century.
Surah The Caw 2/127


127.   And remember Abraham and Ismail raised the foundations of the House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing."


96.   The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all the worlds.

The house which Adem has build for praying.


Regarding the Quran not being the word of men, Muhammad even tacitly admitted that Jabr helped him write much of the Quran - just as the Quraish rightly accused him of - when Muhammad added a sura to deny that fact in a transparent attempt at damage control.

Sura 16.103 We know indeed that they say, "It is a man that teaches him." The tongue of him they wickedly point to is notably foreign, while this is Arabic, pure and clear.

As if Muhammad could have spent all those long hours with a foreigner - Jabr - if Jabr hadn't spoken Arabic as a second language.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Authors of the Quran:
http://inthenameofallah.org/Authors%20of%20the%20Quran.html

There is no point in quoting further from a book filled with blasphemy that directly contradicts the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, until you can show good reason that we should reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the scriptures, and the whole subject of the Gospel, to follow Muhammad.
Again, please start with historical evidence that suggests that Mecca existed prior to the 4th century AD.
I commented those ones. If you think I missed any, please remind me.

Please read inside of it. It looks all looks like a quote. (I think I got a keybord problem or something…)

[/quote]

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 06:18:29 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:42:58 AM
I tougt, we were going to comment one by one.

By that do you mean one person or one topic?

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:42:58 AMPlease be patient. Let me respond and than make a comment.

When you joined the forum you agreed to:

"When you begin, post a thread or comment, or even a couple, trying to include just a point or two, then wait for a response, and then reply to responses. In other words don't just spam away while ignoring replies of other members to your posts."

Way back at this post
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12444#msg12444
I requested that you
"Please present some historical and archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca existed prior to the 4th century AD."

Please revisit that post and please respond to that request now, before posting anything else.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12444#msg12444

All I mean if you want me to comment, please slow down. It’s just a request. If you don’t any answers from me, go a head, rule as ever you like. I am not here to judge you, or trying to convert you or something like that. I am just chating and giving the anwers which I know.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 07:14:54 AMYes, Mecca existed before the 4th century.
Surah The Caw 2/127

127.   And remember Abraham and Ismail raised the foundations of the House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing."

96.   The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all the worlds.

The house which Adem has build for praying.

I'm sorry, but that is not historical or archaeological evidence. That is parroting an illiterate 7th century SW Arabian desert dweller.

The ENTIRETY of what you believe about any pre-4th century Mecca, is a FICTION, that was CREATED in the 7th to 10th centuries AD by a bunch of SW Arabian desert dwellers - WITHOUT REFERENCE to any ACTUAL historical record from before the 5th century AD. How did those men know what went on thousands of years before Muhammad? Study in the Quraish pagan's "Library of Mecca"? That's why Muhammad's followers can only refer to that fiction as "tradition" - because it has nothing to do with the ACTUAL HISTORICAL RECORD.

What you have been taught to believe is a LIE that is EXACTLY CONTRARY to the scriptures of the ONE true God of the Jews and Christians - Yahweh. A lie that is an epic failure whether considered on the basis scripture, history, archaeology and geography.

Now please present some historical or archaeological EVIDENCE in your next reply. Why don't you try starting with a Yahoo search like - history archaeology mecca (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Aix7KpJWhFKzteOh8sRolTubvZx4?p=history+archaeology+mecca&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701) -
Or visit my website here: http://www.historyofmecca.com
http://www.historyofmecca.com/historical_claims.htm

If you want some help with quoting I explain how I do it at the following link. Also don't be afraid to break a post down into several posts, and address point by point.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 07:40:57 AM
If you want some help with quoting I explain how I do it at the following link. Also don't be afraid to break a post down into several posts, and address point by point.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0

Thank you are so polite. I am in Turkey now, but in French we comment one by one. And I am sorry I got you wrong. I touht you were saying Mecca existed before the 4th century. (that is what I belive, too.) Now, if you want any historical evidence about Mecca I can’t give any. We are talking about the times of Adem. I also can’t proof Adam has been existed. (I mean historicaly) I mean it’s a long long times ago. And even I can proof it or you proof it, what’s bout it?

(Please, please short answers)

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 02, 2012, 01:51:32 PM

QuoteIn the years 1600 Church was going to hang Galileo Galilei because of saying the “The World is round.”

The issue wasn't the roundness of the earth it was the centrality of the earth as opposed to a heliocentric model of the solar system. Furthermore, I would not throw stones in a glass house when according to Muhammad the sun sets in a muddy pool. And the Bible already covered the issue of the earth's round shape.

Isa 40:22    It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

I was just trying to proof that the Quran is not a coppy of bibles. Didn’t mean to hurt you. And as I responsed the sun is not seting in a muddy pool. (We alsa have saying that you can’t cover the sun with mud.) That olsa can means, the people he meet there are trying to cover truth, but nonsens. What dose, “Glass house.” Mean?

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 08:11:08 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 07:40:57 AM
If you want some help with quoting I explain how I do it at the following link. Also don't be afraid to break a post down into several posts, and address point by point.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0

Thank you are so polite. I am in Turkey now, but in French we comment one by one. And I am sorry I got you wrong. I touht you were saying Mecca existed before the 4th century. (that is what I belive, too.) Now, if you want any historical evidence about Mecca I can’t give any.

That's because NONE EXISTS because Mecca did not exist before the 4th century AD.

Yet in that same post I showed you that the archaeological evidence EVER INCREASINGLY CONFIRMS the bible as a reliable record of ancient history. But you must reject it to follow the false prophet Muhammad.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 08:11:08 AMWe are talking about the times of Adem.

And Moses was inspired to write the history of that time - not a bunch of 7th to 10th century SW Arabian desert dwellers that lived so many thousands of years after the fact, that created pure fiction that contradicts Moses.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 08:11:08 AMI also can’t proof Adam has been existed. (I mean historicaly) I mean it’s a long long times ago. And even I can proof it or you proof it, what’s bout it?

(Please, please short answers)

Please look at the vast volume of EVIDENCE of scripture in regard to archaeology - with over a million artifacts just on display in Jerusalem!
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=68.0
That is evidence that CONFIRMS THE SCRIPTURES while DESTROYING Islamic so-called "tradition".

Consider the proof of the scriptures through fulfilled prophecy.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm
Yahoo - fulfilled bible prophecy (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Aix7KpJWhFKzteOh8sRolTubvZx4?p=fulfilled+bible+prophecy&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701) - (just click on that link)

OK. Now that we agree there is no historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, let's look at the geographical evidence of the post that I presented for you following that one, that is at the top of this thread page. I asked a couple questions there. Please click here:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12454#msg12454

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 08:20:39 AM
I was just trying to proof that the Quran is not a coppy of bibles. Didn’t mean to hurt you. And as I responsed the sun is not seting in a muddy pool. (We alsa have saying that you can’t cover the sun with mud.) That olsa can means, the people he meet there are trying to cover truth, but nonsens. What dose, “Glass house.” Mean?

The Qur'an has much borrowed material in it. You didn't hurt me. I was pointing out that it isn't wise to talk of the Roman Catholic Church persecuting Galileo for his view of the sun and the earth when the Bible teaches that the earth is round and nowhere does it teach that the sun revolves around it. Which is what the RCC was persecuting Galileo for. To say "You shouldn't throw stones in a glass house" is an expression here that means you shouldn't make judgments about other things, people, etc if you yourself are guilty of the same.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 07:28:06 AMAll I mean if you want me to comment, please slow down. It’s just a request. If you don’t any answers from me, go a head, rule as ever you like.

We will try not to overwhelm you. However if there is more than one response to reply to, simply start with the first, or oldest one (the one immediately below your last post), and work your way down. That will result in the least confusion.

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 08:34:51 AM
OK. Now that we agree there is no historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, let's look at the geographical evidence of the post that I presented for you following that one, that is at the top of this thread page. I asked a couple questions there. Please click here:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12454#msg12454

I looked at that link. As I said, I don't have any interest about he history. Archaelogists always find new thing about history and the evidence the found allways changes. (My aunt is an archaelog. You shuld see them how much they pleased and amazed with the new things they find.)

Now; I have no idea where the Habron is. (I think it is the city Harran, in Turkey) No matter where it is, even it is in the middle of the North Pole I would say yes, he can make journey. We are talking about a prophet; who and whose family has showen miracles. We even belive the cursed devil can travel araund the world faster then light. Can Creator's prophet travel? Yes. (Without a doubt)

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 03, 2012, 08:51:18 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 08:20:39 AM
I was just trying to proof that the Quran is not a coppy of bibles. Didn’t mean to hurt you. And as I responsed the sun is not seting in a muddy pool. (We alsa have saying that you can’t cover the sun with mud.) That olsa can means, the people he meet there are trying to cover truth, but nonsens. What dose, “Glass house.” Mean?

The Qur'an has much borrowed material in it. You didn't hurt me. I was pointing out that it isn't wise to talk of the Roman Catholic Church persecuting Galileo for his view of the sun and the earth when the Bible teaches that the earth is round and nowhere does it teach that the sun revolves around it. Which is what the RCC was persecuting Galileo for. To say "You shouldn't throw stones in a glass house" is an expression here that means you shouldn't make judgments about other things, people, etc if you yourself are guilty of the same.

Didn't hurt you, we are fridens than :) You can see the same meterials in Quran (which you can see in the Bible) Because they are from the same power. Look, it's the same problem we got here. My orijinal language is not Enghish and when you say, "Throwing stones to a glass house" I thought you think the Kabe is build from glass.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:14:44 AM

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 03, 2012, 08:51:18 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 08:20:39 AM
I was just trying to proof that the Quran is not a coppy of bibles. Didn’t mean to hurt you. And as I responsed the sun is not seting in a muddy pool. (We alsa have saying that you can’t cover the sun with mud.) That olsa can means, the people he meet there are trying to cover truth, but nonsens. What dose, “Glass house.” Mean?

The Qur'an has much borrowed material in it. You didn't hurt me. I was pointing out that it isn't wise to talk of the Roman Catholic Church persecuting Galileo for his view of the sun and the earth when the Bible teaches that the earth is round and nowhere does it teach that the sun revolves around it. Which is what the RCC was persecuting Galileo for. To say "You shouldn't throw stones in a glass house" is an expression here that means you shouldn't make judgments about other things, people, etc if you yourself are guilty of the same.

Didn't hurt you, we are fridens than :) You can see the same meterials in Quran (which you can see in the Bible) Because they are from the same power. Look, it's the same problem we got here. My orijinal language is not Enghish and when you say, "Throwing stones to a glass house" I thought you think the Kabe is build from glass.

I have no problem considering someone a friend even if I differ with them. I am glad that unlike many of your fellow muslims who come here you don't seem to have a hateful attitude. I do differ passionately with you on the source of our respective holy books. While I believe the Bible to be the Word of God I by virtue of that fact reject the Qur'an because it teaches precisely the opposite of what the Bible teaches.

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 03, 2012, 10:26:31 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:14:44 AM

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 03, 2012, 08:51:18 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 08:20:39 AM
I was just trying to proof that the Quran is not a coppy of bibles. Didn’t mean to hurt you. And as I responsed the sun is not seting in a muddy pool. (We alsa have saying that you can’t cover the sun with mud.) That olsa can means, the people he meet there are trying to cover truth, but nonsens. What dose, “Glass house.” Mean?

The Qur'an has much borrowed material in it. You didn't hurt me. I was pointing out that it isn't wise to talk of the Roman Catholic Church persecuting Galileo for his view of the sun and the earth when the Bible teaches that the earth is round and nowhere does it teach that the sun revolves around it. Which is what the RCC was persecuting Galileo for. To say "You shouldn't throw stones in a glass house" is an expression here that means you shouldn't make judgments about other things, people, etc if you yourself are guilty of the same.

Didn't hurt you, we are fridens than :) You can see the same meterials in Quran (which you can see in the Bible) Because they are from the same power. Look, it's the same problem we got here. My orijinal language is not Enghish and when you say, "Throwing stones to a glass house" I thought you think the Kabe is build from glass.

I have no problem considering someone a friend even if I differ with them. I am glad that unlike many of your fellow muslims who come here you don't seem to have a hateful attitude. I do differ passionately with you on the source of our respective holy books. While I believe the Bible to be the Word of God I by virtue of that fact reject the Qur'an because it teaches precisely the opposite of what the Bible teaches.

If any muslim hurt you (including me) forgive them. Sometimes people thinks that the religions are just like football tems. They think they are the supporters. If any muslim bothers you remind them the Surah that I ride at the top of this page. No muslim, no human being has right to bother anybody because of there thinkins an belief. Yes, the Quran and the Bible are different. (But only if you examin them) But they are doing the same. They are trying to guide us to the heavens and we all responsible with the things we know.

By the way; resistingrexmundi, Peter which countries are you from? The time of messages are different from my zone.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 08:34:51 AM
OK. Now that we agree there is no historical or archaeological evidence that suggests that Mecca ever existed before the 4th century AD, let's look at the geographical evidence of the post that I presented for you following that one, that is at the top of this thread page. I asked a couple questions there. Please click here:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12454#msg12454

I looked at that link. As I said, I don't have any interest about he history.

Muhammad's followers CAN'T take an interest in history or you would see that what you believe are lies from the father of lies.

That link is about PHYSICAL GEOGRAPHY. The FACT IS that since Mecca is 1200 kilometers AWAY from anywhere Abraham ever traveled, that proves that the historical FICTION that was all created in the 7th to 10th centuries AD by a bunch of SW Arabian desert dwellers, that Muhammad's followers call "tradition", is a PHYSICAL IMPOSSIBILITY that is also EXACTLY CONTRARY to the TRUE HISTORICAL RECORD contained in scripture, as CONFIRMED by the archaeological EVIDENCE, and physical geography.
Thus Islam is a provable preposterous lie as confirmed through history, archaeology and geography.

How did a bunch of 7th to 10th century SW Arabian desert dwellers know what went on so many thousands of years before? Visit the Quraish pagan's "Library of Mecca"?

Next we'll explore the SCRIPTURAL EVIDENCE. I will do that in part by responding to your post that was next in order by breaking it down into many small posts.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AMArchaelogists always find new thing about history and the evidence the found allways changes. (My aunt is an archaelog. You shuld see them how much they pleased and amazed with the new things they find.)

Now; I have no idea where the Habron is.

That's why I included a link. Hebron is where Jews, Christians AND MUSLIMS go to visit Abraham's grave. It's 1200 KILOMETERS from Mecca. LOOK AT THE LINK
http://www.bibleplaces.com/hebron.htm
Yahoo - abraham hebron -

Abraham would NOT have abandoned his WIFE Sarah, and his son Isaac, WHOM GOD MADE HIS COVENANT WITH, to wander across 1200 kilometers of unexplored desert with his wife's slave Hagar and her son Ishmael - NOR DID HE.
Ishmael's seed are the "children of the flesh"
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2771.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AM(I think it is the city Harran, in Turkey) No matter where it is, even it is in the middle of the North Pole I would say yes, he can make journey. We are talking about a prophet; who and whose family has showen miracles.

The only miracle with Muhammad is that people believe his lies that come straight from the father of lies because they are EXACTLY the OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AMWe even belive the cursed devil can travel araund the world faster then light. Can Creator's prophet travel? Yes. (Without a doubt)

You mean you believe in Muhammad's preposterous UNWITNESSED tale of riding on a flying donkey-mule from Mecca to Jerusalem to "paradise" and back to Mecca by morning. He even lied about praying the the temple in Jerusalem that had been torn down 500 years before Muhammad told his lie.
http://www.petewaldo.com/mohammeds_night_journey.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 11:18:23 AM
By the way; resistingrexmundi, Peter which countries are you from? The time of messages are different from my zone.

We're in the eastern U.S. (the forum time stamp is unrelated and is default with the software) Where are you?

Before I begin responding to your next post, in order, way back at this link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12460#msg12460

I would appreciate it if you would take a few minutes to visit this link and read it or listen to the video presented there. Your eternal life depends on it:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2641.0

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 11:21:54 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AM(I think it is the city Harran, in Turkey) No matter where it is, even it is in the middle of the North Pole I would say yes, he can make journey. We are talking about a prophet; who and whose family has showen miracles.

xxxxxxxxxxI was talking about Hz. Abraham(PBH) (The miracles of him and his suns exc...)

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AMWe even belive the cursed devil can travel araund the world faster then light. Can Creator's prophet travel? Yes. (Without a doubt)

You mean you believe in Muhammad's preposterous UNWITNESSED tale of riding on a flying donkey-mule from Mecca to Jerusalem to "paradise" and back to Mecca by morning. He even lied about praying the the temple in Jerusalem that had been torn down 500 years before Muhammad told his lie.
http://www.petewaldo.com/mohammeds_night_journey.htm

What riding on a flying donkey? Where do you find these kind of things? ;D Probably from a Jewish source. Because The tample which you are talkin about is Kubbetu's Sahra, not Mescid-i Aksa.

Surah, The Israelites 17/1
1.    Glory to (Allah) Who did take His Servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

In the Quran, (not in translation) you can see the word Mescid-i Aksa.  :D

No...it is my keyboar I think. I couldn't make quote again. I put some x's. Sorry for that.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 08:11:08 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 07:40:57 AM
If you want some help with quoting I explain how I do it at the following link. Also don't be afraid to break a post down into several posts, and address point by point.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=39.0

Thank you are so polite. I am in Turkey now, but in French we comment one by one. And I am sorry I got you wrong. I touht you were saying Mecca existed before the 4th century. (that is what I belive, too.) Now, if you want any historical evidence about Mecca I can’t give any. We are talking about the times of Adem. I also can’t proof Adam has been existed. (I mean historicaly) I mean it’s a long long times ago. And even I can proof it or you proof it, what’s bout it?

(Please, please short answers)

When we write long, sometimes we miss the parts. I am in Turkey now.
I got to go now. See you :)

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 12:13:41 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 11:21:54 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AM(I think it is the city Harran, in Turkey) No matter where it is, even it is in the middle of the North Pole I would say yes, he can make journey. We are talking about a prophet; who and whose family has showen miracles.

xxxxxxxxxxI was talking about Hz. Abraham(PBH) (The miracles of him and his suns exc...)

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AMWe even belive the cursed devil can travel araund the world faster then light. Can Creator's prophet travel? Yes. (Without a doubt)

You mean you believe in Muhammad's preposterous UNWITNESSED tale of riding on a flying donkey-mule from Mecca to Jerusalem to "paradise" and back to Mecca by morning. He even lied about praying the the temple in Jerusalem that had been torn down 500 years before Muhammad told his lie.
http://www.petewaldo.com/mohammeds_night_journey.htm

What riding on a flying donkey? Where do you find these kind of things? ;D Probably from a Jewish source.

I said flying donkey-mule. I got that from the Quran. Muhammad described his buraq (like the one the fabled Zoroastrian prophet rode) as being in size between a donkey and mule.

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:
It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of vision. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk.

The problem is that temple had been torn down 500 years before Muhammad lied about tying his buraq to it and praying in it. Yet it was decades before the Al-Aqsa mosque was built.

Here's a forum thread on the subject of Muhammad's night journey.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0
And on the mythical "buraq".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1713.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 12:13:41 PMBecause The tample which you are talkin about is Kubbetu's Sahra, not Mescid-i Aksa.

Surah, The Israelites 17/1
1.    Glory to (Allah) Who did take His Servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

In the Quran, (not in translation) you can see the word Mescid-i Aksa.  :D

If you mean Al-Aqsa it did not exist until many decades after Muhammad died. In fact the historical record tells us that at the time that Muhammad lied about praying in a temple on the temple mount, the temple mount was being used as a garbage dump.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount#Sassanid_vassal_state_period

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 12:13:41 PM
No...it is my keyboar I think. I couldn't make quote again. I put some x's. Sorry for that.

Please, please, please look back at this thread before moving forward.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12491#msg12491

In the following I chop your oldest post that hasn't been addressed yet, into several small, mostly one-subject posts. Please don't be alarmed by the volume. Simply start with the oldest one at the link above and then move one by one in order from this post down.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM
[Sorry. You can't have it both ways. Moses was inspired to write the account of Yahweh speaking to Abraham manifest as a man. So your prior post indicates you believe Moses was a liar because you believe Muhammad.]

At translation of Surah The Cow 2/285

285.   The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction .......

And that's the tragedy of it. Even you are required to believe that Jesus is the one and only Messiah. Required to believe Jesus is the only person ever to be born of a virgin by the will of God. You are required to believe that Jesus is sinless. You are required to believe that Jesus was lifted physically to heaven.
Yet you are not allowed to make a distinction between THE sinless MESSIAH, and a sinful 7th century, imperialistic conquering, mass murdering, female prisoner abusing, child doing, self-admitted terrorist, and thief. A false prophet that professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM....... (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

Yes, I can’t have both ways. But, there is only one way and muslims belive all the prophets of Creator is carring the same message.

Yet Muhammad professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. He filled you with complete resolve, not as to what to believe, but specifically as to what to DISbelieve, DENY and REJECT.
You are compelled to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, and to DENY that Jesus is the Son of God, and to REJECT the shed blood of the sinless Messiah that He shed to save you from your sins.

Islam is to the Gospel as the negative is to a photograph. Islam is the only anti-another-religion, religion. Islam is ANTICHRIST.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMNo muslim is a muslim if he or she says Moses(Peace be upon him) or Jesus(puh) or Nuh(puh) or Lut(puh) or Abraham(puh) (or any other prophets) was a liar.

Simply parroting Ahmed Deedat won't make what you write magically come true. Are you lying now or were you lying before? You already rejected Moses prophecy to follow Muhammad. And you reject Jesus' prophecy to follow Muhammad.

I did a video on the lie that "Muslims believe in Jesus and all the prophets."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2714.0
The simple fact of the matter is that Muslims believe IN Muhammad alone. The most that can be said about their belief in any of the prophets of the God of the Jews and Christians, is that they believe they existed, while rejecting the way they are revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, to believe the EXACT OPPOSITE. Specifically to DISbelieve and reject them, because of your faith in Muhammad.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMAll of the prophets of the Creator are valuable for us.

That is empty lip service and a lie. You reject Jesus to follow Muhammad. To believe IN Jesus you have to believe that He was crucified, died and was resurrected, and that we are saved from sin by His shed blood. THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL and Old Testament prophecy.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMThe point is the message which the bring has been changed.

That's a lie from straight out of the pit of hell. What it means is that you follow Satan who revealed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, through his prophet Muhammad. Muhammad is the only "change".

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMEven if you take the translation of Quran as Quran the message is not he same. If you can speak an other languge other than English chose a song and try to translate it. You can’t clearly succeed.

That's false. It's easy to expose Muhammad in just a few verses. I offer a one-minute complete course on Islam, for Christians - Islam 101.
http://www.brotherpete.com

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

[If Muhammad was not a false prophet then ALL of the prophets of the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind were false - including Jesus.]


False? Who said that?

You did when you demonstrated that you rejected Moses's prophecy for the false prophet Muhammad. When you rejected Jesus' prophecy for the false prophet Muhammad.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

At Surah The Food 5/47

47.   Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

So even Muhammad said Christians are to judge by what is revealed in the Gospel. By Muhammad's 7th century the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, had been copied tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. Here is a little of what it says:

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Christ crucified as was prophesied by the Old Testament prophets as well
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

At Surah The Family of Imran 3/113

113.   Not all of them are alike: Among the People of the Book are a portion that stand (for the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.


The People of the book means: The people who call themselves Christian and Jewish.
Buy the way

Christians and Jews HAVE NEVER nor WOULD EVER, prostrate themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca - 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs - and pray in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" 5 times a day, as the Sabians did that Muhammad copied that from.
http://www.petewaldo.com/hajj_umrah.htm

Mat 6:7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen [do]: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.

In fact the Banu Quraiza Jews chose to be beheaded, rather than reject their Torah and prostrate themselves to the Quraish pagan's black stone idol and engage in Muhammad's thinly veneered Quraish pagan moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals.

Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.' Asad said, 'Since you reject this proposal of mine, then kill your children and your wives and go out to Muhammad and his Companions as men who brandish swords, leaving behind no impediments to worry you. If you die, you shall have left nothing behind; if you win you shall find other women and children.' The Jews replied, 'Why would we kill these poor ones? What would be the good of living after them?'"

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "Huyayy, the enemy of Allah, was brought out. He was wearing a rose-colored suit of clothes that he had torn all over with fingertip-sized holes so that it would not be taken as booty. His hands were bound to his neck with a rope. When he looked at Muhammad he said, 'I do not regret opposing you. Whoever forsakes God will be damned.' He sat down and was beheaded."

The Banu Qurayza knew who to fear, and it wasn't Muhammad and his alter-ego - the Arabian pagan deity - "Allah".

http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM
159.   Of the people of Moses there is a section who guide and do justice in the light of truth.

You are responsible of what you believe. You are thinking about the nonmuslim people. What about the others who hasn’t heard of any religion.

They are saved by their ignorance:

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

But you, my friend, are in full knowledge. You will be held accountable by the very Son of God that THE false prophet Muhammad compelled you to deny:

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMIn Quran Allah says, the ones who hasn’t heard the truth is no resposible.


[Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm]


Surah Marium (Mery) 19/33

33.   "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

That's nonsense. Jesus speaking as an infant Muhammad plagiarized from an Arabic apocryphal fable written in Egypt titled "First Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ" it said:
"...Jesus spake even when he was in the cradle, and said: 'Mary, I am Jesus the son of God. That word which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel..."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

Sometimes translations are really guiding wrong. Watch the sentence, “The day that I die.” I am sure he is still alive. And I am sure he will come and guide us again.

And even though Jesus rules and reigns in His kingdom forever and forever, and even though you are required to believe He was lifted bodily to heaven, because of a fable that Muhammad plagiarized you are compelled to believe that He will return only to die after he does. Otherwise that nonsense Muhammad plagiarized would be wrong. Pure satanic blasphemy.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

[Quote from: Bornao on Today at 07:07:20 AM
Trust me. I can give many, many examples that proofs Quran is not a word of a man.

That couldn't be more false. All you presented was nonsensical "science" in the Quran that is all exposed on the link I provided.
Not a single person ever heard Gabriel or "Allah" give Muhammad a single "revelation". Yet you must reject all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind to follow Muhammad alone.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM
Then rather than ignore my last post, and my request, why don't you begin by providing us with some archaeological and historical evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD?][/color]

Sorry for that. I am just trying to stick on the subject. Didn’t mean to ignore you. At that link, if it says Mecca existed before the 4th century and want met o comment this. My answer is yes without reading them. Mecca existed before the 4th century. Even the Kaba existed before 4th century. (Before there was a city.) Here is Surah The Caw 2/127


127.   And remember Abraham and Ismail raised the foundations of the House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing."


96.   The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all the worlds.

The house which Adem has build for praying.

I think, you are asking how did Hz.Mumammed understand the language of Jabr. Is that right?
The answer is so easy that I am not sure I get the question right. If I got it wrong forgive me. Here is the answer: Jabr, it is Gabriel in English. Gabriel is the angel of vahiys.

Jabr was an ex-"christian" neighbor of Muhammad that Muhammad got much of his "revelation" from. So frequently did Muhammad get a "revelation" after a long chat with Jabr, that the Quraish nicknamed Jabr "holy spirit". Please visit that thread on the inspiration of the Quran.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMThe angel who was created or who was charged for carrying the words of the Creator.

Even Muhammad knew that it was a demon that met him in that cave and tried to choke the life out of him three times. His wife Khadijah talked him out of his demon theory, but she wasn't even there.
2Cr 11:14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMWhich language do you thing the angels are using? English? Spanish, Arabic? I thing your answer will be, “No.” The language they use is different from the human beings uses. But trust me, if an angel talk to you, you will understand. If that happens, I can’t imagine you saying to angel, “I have no idea what you are talking about.”

Trust me. Angels of the Lord don't go around making people feel like they are having the life choked out of them.

Muhammad Thought the Spirit in Cave Hira Was a Demon (DQ1-5) - Coptic priest Zakaria Botrous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpsWnbApBNw

What Did Mohammed Do In the Cave Hira? (DQ1-3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNbzevID550

Muhammad Already Knew "Gabriel" Was a Demon (DQ-9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk0dQCpglb4

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 02:15:57 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 12:13:41 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 11:21:54 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AM(I think it is the city Harran, in Turkey) No matter where it is, even it is in the middle of the North Pole I would say yes, he can make journey. We are talking about a prophet; who and whose family has showen miracles.

xxxxxxxxxxI was talking about Hz. Abraham(PBH) (The miracles of him and his suns exc...)

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 10:01:17 AMWe even belive the cursed devil can travel araund the world faster then light. Can Creator's prophet travel? Yes. (Without a doubt)

You mean you believe in Muhammad's preposterous UNWITNESSED tale of riding on a flying donkey-mule from Mecca to Jerusalem to "paradise" and back to Mecca by morning. He even lied about praying the the temple in Jerusalem that had been torn down 500 years before Muhammad told his lie.
http://www.petewaldo.com/mohammeds_night_journey.htm

What riding on a flying donkey? Where do you find these kind of things? ;D Probably from a Jewish source.

I said flying donkey-mule. I got that from the Quran. Muhammad described his buraq (like the one the fabled Zoroastrian prophet rode) as being in size between a donkey and mule.

Sahih Muslim, Book 001, Number 0309:
It is narrated on the authority of Anas b. Malik that the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) said: I was brought al-Buraq Who is an animal white and long, larger than a donkey but smaller than a mule, who would place his hoof a distance equal to the range of vision. I mounted it and came to the Temple (Bait Maqdis in Jerusalem), then tethered it to the ring used by the prophets. I entered the mosque and prayed two rak'ahs in it, and then came out and Gabriel brought me a vessel of wine and a vessel of milk.

The problem is that temple had been torn down 500 years before Muhammad lied about tying his buraq to it and praying in it. Yet it was decades before the Al-Aqsa mosque was built.

Here's a forum thread on the subject of Muhammad's night journey.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1253.0
And on the mythical "buraq".
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1713.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 12:13:41 PMBecause The tample which you are talkin about is Kubbetu's Sahra, not Mescid-i Aksa.

Surah, The Israelites 17/1
1.    Glory to (Allah) Who did take His Servant for a Journey by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Farthest Mosque, whose precincts We did bless,- in order that We might show him some of Our Signs: for He is the One Who heareth and seeth (all things).

In the Quran, (not in translation) you can see the word Mescid-i Aksa.  :D

If you mean Al-Aqsa it did not exist until many decades after Muhammad died. In fact the historical record tells us that at the time that Muhammad lied about praying in a temple on the temple mount, the temple mount was being used as a garbage dump.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount#Sassanid_vassal_state_period

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 12:13:41 PM
No...it is my keyboar I think. I couldn't make quote again. I put some x's. Sorry for that.

Brother, tell me the Surah and ayet number where, "flying donkey-mule." or "burak." passes. Than I answer. I have no idea who, "Sahih Muslim" or what, "Book 001, Number 0309:" is. Who ever he is, I can only give answers from the Quran. (insallah) I think it's Al-Aqsa in Enghish. Watch the word Ayet which I gave you. It dose not say IN the mescid-i Al-Aksa. Watch the word precincts. You get it? Translations are killing me. :)

temple on the temple mount? What is this? Brodher I would like to talk about Quran, not histor or some thing else.

By the way. As ı was writing these you posted 10 messages in a seccond. Is that normal?

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 03:47:44 PM
Brother, tell me the Surah and ayet number where, "flying donkey-mule." or "burak." passes. Than I answer. I have no idea who, "Sahih Muslim" or what, "Book 001, Number 0309:" is. Who ever he is, I can only give answers from the Quran.

That is from the Hadith, which are second only to the Quran. They are collections of things that Muhammad is supposed to have said. Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are the two most respected collections of Muhammad's life in Islam. Without them nobody could have ever made any sense out of the Quran.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2860.0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 03:47:44 PM(insallah) I think it's Al-Aqsa in Enghish. Watch the word Ayet which I gave you. It dose not say IN the mescid-i Al-Aksa. Watch the word precincts. You get it? Translations are killing me. :)

temple on the temple mount? What is this?

It is the mount where the one true God Yahweh had His people build a temple to him. Solomon's temple which was destroyed and later replaced by Herod's temple which was destroyed because Jesus' people are His temple today.
http://www.beholdthebeast.com/temple_of_god.htm
Wikipedia on temple mount
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount
more
http://www.historyofmecca.com/#temple
The temple mount is where the Al-Aqsa mosque and the Dome of the Rock reside today.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dome_of_the_Rock

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 03:47:44 PMBrodher I would like to talk about Quran, not histor or some thing else.

What I have shown you is there is no historical, archaeological or geographical reason to have anything to do with the Quran. What I went on to do was show you why there is no scriptural basis on which to believe the Quran, by answering your old post.
The FACT IS that Muhammad professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
There is nothing more important than understanding this.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2748.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2749.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 03:47:44 PMBy the way. As ı was writing these you posted 10 messages in a seccond. Is that normal?

No it's the first time I've ever done it. Sorry, I didn't see you were online and I thought you left for the day so I took the opportunity to post them so you would have plenty to read if you came back here in the middle of my night. I composed them this morning, but then you logged in, so I delayed posting them until we covered the topics we were discussing. I didn't want you to think I was ignoring your old post.

I presented all that so there would be a lot of evidence for you to sort through, against Muhammad, and in favor of all of the prophets and witnesses of the bible.
But the most important thing we have to discuss is Jesus' crucifixion, which is the whole subject of the Gospel, and in actuality the whole bible. Please read that prior post again,
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12503#msg12503

Please read this thread
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2641.0
or this web page
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Note added a little later:
Bornao, I am sorry I was so blunt and matter-of-fact with you, throughout our exchange. It expressed only my concern, but not my love for you, and I sincerely regret that. Yet you remained civil, gentle and sweet the whole way through. We have dealt with some harsh Muslims so maybe it was force of habit, but that certainly isn't an excuse. I am sorry for how I posted, and I hope you can forgive me for it.

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:16:38 PM
Please, please, please look back at this thread before moving forward.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2117.msg12491#msg12491

In the following I chop your oldest post that hasn't been addressed yet, into several small, mostly one-subject posts. Please don't be alarmed by the volume. Simply start with the oldest one at the link above and then move one by one in order from this post down.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM
[Sorry. You can't have it both ways. Moses was inspired to write the account of Yahweh speaking to Abraham manifest as a man. So your prior post indicates you believe Moses was a liar because you believe Muhammad.]

At translation of Surah The Cow 2/285

285.   The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His messengers. "We make no distinction .......

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:16:38 PM
And that's the tragedy of it. Even you are required to believe that Jesus is the one and only Messiah. Required to believe Jesus is the only person ever to be born of a virgin by the will of God. You are required to believe that Jesus is sinless. You are required to believe that Jesus was lifted physically to heaven.

Brother, the real tragedy is ignoring what all the prophets are saying. Hz.Noah, Hz.Lut, Hz.Abraham... and also the ones whose names has not been mentioned in our books. And watch the word messengerS (prophetS) They are plural.

Surah The Rock 15/80
80.    The Companions of the Rocky Tract also rejected the messengers:

Surah The Poets 26/123 and 141
123.    The Noah's (people) rejected the messengers.

Surah 38/13

13.    And Tham�d, and the people of Lut, and the Companions of the Wood; - such were the Confederates.

I can go on and on...

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:16:38 PM
Yet you are not allowed to make a distinction between THE sinless MESSIAH, and a sinful 7th century, imperialistic conquering, mass murdering, female prisoner abusing, child doing, self-admitted terrorist, and thief. A false prophet that professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

Jesus was sinless. 7th century? You are talking about history right? Brother history is something which people write. It is all in the hands of people. And people are emotional creatures. You see? You try to mention islam people did wrong things. But according to my aspect and my historians you are the ones did wrong things. You are the one who started crusades. etc, etc... You are trying to tell me city of Mecca hasn't been existed before the 4th century. Even you are right what's about it? Quran dose not say Mecca existed before 4th century or something like that. Quran also underlines there was not a city called Mecca at the times of Hz.Abraham.

Surah Abraham 14/37


37.    "O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in a valley without cultivation, by Thy Sacred House; in order, O our Lord, that they may establish regular Prayer: so fill the hearts of some among men with love towards them, and feed them with fruits: so that they may give thanks.

I think this answer is okay for you. Brother, I realy don't like history. I am not ignoring you or trying to cover something. I just don't like and don't trust history. Okay?  :)

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:17:06 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM....... (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

Yes, I can’t have both ways. But, there is only one way and muslims belive all the prophets of Creator is carring the same message.

Yet Muhammad professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. He filled you with complete resolve, not as to what to believe, but specifically as to what to DISbelieve, DENY and REJECT.
You are compelled to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, and to DENY that Jesus is the Son of God, and to REJECT the shed blood of the sinless Messiah that He shed to save you from your sins.

Islam is to the Gospel as the negative is to a photograph. Islam is the only anti-another-religion, religion. Islam is ANTICHRIST.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Brother, these are all you thoughts. Don't expect me to comment these. I belive only God can judge me. That's what the Quran says. Thats why I can't judge you and please, don't judge me.

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:17:50 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMNo muslim is a muslim if he or she says Moses(Peace be upon him) or Jesus(puh) or Nuh(puh) or Lut(puh) or Abraham(puh) (or any other prophets) was a liar.

Simply parroting Ahmed Deedat won't make what you write magically come true. Are you lying now or were you lying before? You already rejected Moses prophecy to follow Muhammad. And you reject Jesus' prophecy to follow Muhammad.

I did a video on the lie that "Muslims believe in Jesus and all the prophets."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2714.0
The simple fact of the matter is that Muslims believe IN Muhammad alone. The most that can be said about their belief in any of the prophets of the God of the Jews and Christians, is that they believe they existed, while rejecting the way they are revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, to believe the EXACT OPPOSITE. Specifically to DISbelieve and reject them, because of your faith in Muhammad.

I don't reject any of the Creator's prophets. If I wrote something like that, this must be a grammar mistake or something. Please show it to me and I correct it. (Just a quote is enouh.) And who is Ahmed Deedat and Muslim Ahmed Mehmet bla bla blas? I am just here to talk about Quran. Don't expect magical words from me, I am not a prophet or something like that. And I am not trying to convert you.

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:18:13 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMAll of the prophets of the Creator are valuable for us.

That is empty lip service and a lie. You reject Jesus to follow Muhammad. To believe IN Jesus you have to believe that He was crucified, died and was resurrected, and that we are saved from sin by His shed blood. THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL and Old Testament prophecy.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

I don't reject Hz.Jesus. I belive he has no father, like Adam. He is a prophet. I don't belive he died because of anybodys sins. If so, what about the people of the past (B.C.) What about the ones who hasn't heard of any religion, old African tribes, Mayas, Native Americans, Aboriginals. What makes me better than them. Nothing. We all are humans. Am I lucky? No. This life is a test and everybody has different questions to answer. And what about Adam and Eve. They did something wrong and a sinless man, Hz. Jesus pay it. I don't think so. (These are all my thouths and the way I think.)

Surah The Food 5/116-117-118

116.    And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.   

117.    "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.   

118.    "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."

I hope Hz.Messiah save you there by praying for you.

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:18:43 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMThe point is the message which the bring has been changed.

That's a lie from straight out of the pit of hell. What it means is that you follow Satan who revealed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, through his prophet Muhammad. Muhammad is the only "change".

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMEven if you take the translation of Quran as Quran the message is not he same. If you can speak an other languge other than English chose a song and try to translate it. You can’t clearly succeed.

That's false. It's easy to expose Muhammad in just a few verses. I offer a one-minute complete course on Islam, for Christians - Islam 101.
http://www.brotherpete.com

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

[If Muhammad was not a false prophet then ALL of the prophets of the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind were false - including Jesus.]


False? Who said that?

You did when you demonstrated that you rejected Moses's prophecy for the false prophet Muhammad. When you rejected Jesus' prophecy for the false prophet Muhammad.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

At Surah The Food 5/47

47.   Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

So even Muhammad said Christians are to judge by what is revealed in the Gospel. By Muhammad's 7th century the Gospel had been translated into every popular language, had been copied tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. Here is a little of what it says:

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Christ crucified as was prophesied by the Old Testament prophets as well
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

I gave the answers of these at top. (False prophet... ect.)
Again, brodher I am not here to judge you. And yes, Surah The Food 5/47 is right.

And translations are not the original. Translation of Quran is an translation of Quran, it dosen't mean Quran. We still have ones which has been writen about 600's. The more important part of this, it has been memorized by thousands of people, latter by letter, word by word.
If you show me these chapters in the original of the Bible, that's ok. But versions and translations are not original.

I can poof it. Tell me which language can you talk rather than English.

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:19:21 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

At Surah The Family of Imran 3/113

113.   Not all of them are alike: Among the People of the Book are a portion that stand (for the right): They rehearse the Signs of Allah all night long, and they prostrate themselves in adoration.


The People of the book means: The people who call themselves Christian and Jewish.
Buy the way

Christians and Jews HAVE NEVER nor WOULD EVER, prostrate themselves toward the Quraish pagan's black stone idol in Mecca - 1200 kilometers away from THE Holy Land of the prophets and patriarchs - and pray in the "vain repetitions of the heathen" 5 times a day, as the Sabians did that Muhammad copied that from.

By saying the black stone you mean Kabe where are not worshiping it. ;D It's a direction. Do you know the directions of very old churchs? Come to Turkey with a compass. Did you know Hz. Abraham whashes his body parts before praying. Check the Bible. Did you know Hz.Jesus fells on his face when prayin? Check the Bible. If you say the Bible is original and I belive what it says, it's in your book. Did you know Hz.Abraham, Hz.Moses, Hz.Jesus circumcise, it's in your book than. You think there is only one Holy Land, what about Mayas and old Natives in Australia, etc. What makes us think we are special, or the loved ones. Brother, we only know what we have been told.

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:19:21 PM
Ishaq:462/Tabari VIII:30 "The Jews said, 'We will never abandon the Torah or exchange it for the Qur'an.' Asad said, 'Since you reject this proposal of mine, then kill your children and your wives and go out to Muhammad and his Companions as men who brandish swords, leaving behind no impediments to worry you. If you die, you shall have left nothing behind; if you win you shall find other women and children.' The Jews replied, 'Why would we kill these poor ones? What would be the good of living after them?'"

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "Huyayy, the enemy of Allah, was brought out. He was wearing a rose-colored suit of clothes that he had torn all over with fingertip-sized holes so that it would not be taken as booty. His hands were bound to his neck with a rope. When he looked at Muhammad he said, 'I do not regret opposing you. Whoever forsakes God will be damned.' He sat down and was beheaded."

The Banu Qurayza knew who to fear, and it wasn't Muhammad and his alter-ego - the Arabian pagan deity - "Allah".

http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm

Surah The Cow 2/256

256.    Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Taghut (evil) and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

"No compulsion in religion" it says. And they did it when they are saying this. Funny history again. Look, the nations are converting. Which sward did we use upon Indonesia?

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:20:11 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMIn Quran Allah says, the ones who hasn’t heard the truth is no resposible.


[Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm]


Surah Marium (Mery) 19/33

33.   "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

That's nonsense. Jesus speaking as an infant Muhammad plagiarized from an Arabic apocryphal fable written in Egypt titled "First Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ" it said:
"...Jesus spake even when he was in the cradle, and said: 'Mary, I am Jesus the son of God. That word which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel..."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Millions are all going wrong and their number is increasing. Looks like our kids, maybe grand kids are going to be muslim. Come on brother, are all those people going wrong. I don't want to talk these kind of things. We believe what the original Bible says. Unfortunately what we have is versions and translations of it. Even the translation of Quran is not Quran. How can we trust on the versions.
Brother, I realy don’t care the thouht of you. (Don't take it negative. I mean the positive.) Please ask me questions like, It says bla bla bla in Quran and what dose it mean. I think you only have a translation of Quran and translations are not enough to understand. I can show you if you can tell me which language you can speak instead English. Ok?

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:59:39 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 03:47:44 PM
Brother, tell me the Surah and ayet number where, "flying donkey-mule." or "burak." passes. Than I answer. I have no idea who, "Sahih Muslim" or what, "Book 001, Number 0309:" is. Who ever he is, I can only give answers from the Quran.

That is from the Hadith, which are second only to the Quran. They are collections of things that Muhammad is supposed to have said. Sahih Muslim and Sahih Bukhari are the two most respected collections of Muhammad's life in Islam. Without them nobody could have ever made any sense out of the Quran.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2860.0
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith

Brother Hadith is not Quran. As you see, even original Quran existing today people can try to add something in it. But can't succeed because the original still remains. I know what Hadith (It's closer if we say hadis, With an s at the and.) Yes it helps to understand, but without it you can understand the minimal of the teachings and it's enough for any muslim. And at those Hadis books, the writers allways says, "I you find something which is opposite to Quran, deny mine." Ok?

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:21:05 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

[Quote from: Bornao on Today at 07:07:20 AM
Trust me. I can give many, many examples that proofs Quran is not a word of a man.

That couldn't be more false. All you presented was nonsensical "science" in the Quran that is all exposed on the link I provided.

I answered that. Please explain it:

Surah The Ant27/88

88.    Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for He is well acquainted with all that ye do.

Tell me brother, did they   knew that mountains was moving. Please don't show me links etc. write you answer. (I prefer shot ones. You realy write so long an long)

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:59:39 PM


It is the mount where the one true God Yahweh had His people build a temple to him. Solomon's temple which was destroyed and later replaced by Herod's temple which was destroyed because Jesus' people are His temple today.

Brother I answered that at the top. The ayeth is not sayin in the mescid. It remarks the place (precincts We did bless)
Peace :)

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:21:05 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM

[Quote from: Bornao on Today at 07:07:20 AM
Trust me. I can give many, many examples that proofs Quran is not a word of a man.

That couldn't be more false. All you presented was nonsensical "science" in the Quran that is all exposed on the link I provided.
Not a single person ever heard Gabriel or "Allah" give Muhammad a single "revelation". Yet you must reject all of the prophets and witnesses as revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind to follow Muhammad alone.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM
Then rather than ignore my last post, and my request, why don't you begin by providing us with some archaeological and historical evidence, that suggests that Mecca existed before the 4th century AD?][/color]

Sorry for that. I am just trying to stick on the subject. Didn’t mean to ignore you. At that link, if it says Mecca existed before the 4th century and want met o comment this. My answer is yes without reading them. Mecca existed before the 4th century. Even the Kaba existed before 4th century. (Before there was a city.) Here is Surah The Caw 2/127


127.   And remember Abraham and Ismail raised the foundations of the House (with this prayer): "Our Lord! Accept (this service) from us: For Thou art the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing."


96.   The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka: Full of blessing and of guidance for all the worlds.

The house which Adem has build for praying.

I think, you are asking how did Hz.Mumammed understand the language of Jabr. Is that right?
The answer is so easy that I am not sure I get the question right. If I got it wrong forgive me. Here is the answer: Jabr, it is Gabriel in English. Gabriel is the angel of vahiys.

Jabr was an ex-"christian" neighbor of Muhammad that Muhammad got much of his "revelation" from. So frequently did Muhammad get a "revelation" after a long chat with Jabr, that the Quraish nicknamed Jabr "holy spirit". Please visit that thread on the inspiration of the Quran.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=452.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMThe angel who was created or who was charged for carrying the words of the Creator.

Even Muhammad knew that it was a demon that met him in that cave and tried to choke the life out of him three times. His wife Khadijah talked him out of his demon theory, but she wasn't even there.
2Cr 11:14  And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMWhich language do you thing the angels are using? English? Spanish, Arabic? I thing your answer will be, “No.” The language they use is different from the human beings uses. But trust me, if an angel talk to you, you will understand. If that happens, I can’t imagine you saying to angel, “I have no idea what you are talking about.”

Trust me. Angels of the Lord don't go around making people feel like they are having the life choked out of them.

Muhammad Thought the Spirit in Cave Hira Was a Demon (DQ1-5) - Coptic priest Zakaria Botrous
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpsWnbApBNw

What Did Mohammed Do In the Cave Hira? (DQ1-3)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LNbzevID550

Muhammad Already Knew "Gabriel" Was a Demon (DQ-9)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk0dQCpglb4

Again, these are just thoughts of you. No comment :)

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:59:39 PM
No it's the first time I've ever done it. Sorry, I didn't see you were online and I thought you left for the day so I took the opportunity to post them so you would have plenty to read if you came back here in the middle of my night. I composed them this morning, but then you logged in, so I delayed posting them until we covered the topics we were discussing. I didn't want you to think I was ignoring your old post.

Even you hate us, you are a nice man.  :) If I shamed you, I am sorry for that. You are rihgt I was going to be off for two days. And my time is coming. (Which I can't be here anymore.) If anythink happens suddenly hope to see you in heavens.

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 02:26:24 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:17:06 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AM....... (they say) between one and another of His messengers." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (we seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys."

Yes, I can’t have both ways. But, there is only one way and muslims belive all the prophets of Creator is carring the same message.

Yet Muhammad professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel. He filled you with complete resolve, not as to what to believe, but specifically as to what to DISbelieve, DENY and REJECT.
You are compelled to DISbelieve the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, and to DENY that Jesus is the Son of God, and to REJECT the shed blood of the sinless Messiah that He shed to save you from your sins.

Islam is to the Gospel as the negative is to a photograph. Islam is the only anti-another-religion, religion. Islam is ANTICHRIST.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Brother, these are all you thoughts. Don't expect me to comment these. I belive only God can judge me. That's what the Quran says. Thats why I can't judge you and please, don't judge me.

Those are not my thoughts. It comes from the scriptures.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Please read the verse again and comment. Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God or do you deny it?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

Here are hundreds of verses regarding God the Father and His Son.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=611.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=610.0

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 04:22:14 PM
Note added a little later:
Bornao, I am sorry I was so blunt and matter-of-fact with you, throughout our exchange. It expressed only my concern, but not my love for you, and I sincerely regret that. Yet you remained civil, gentle and sweet the whole way through. We have dealt with some harsh Muslims so maybe it was force of habit, but that certainly isn't an excuse. I am sorry for how I posted, and I hope you can forgive me for it.

Now I am ashamed. I read the Galileo Galilei thing which I wrote. I thougt someone was shouting at me, showing my face with his finger and sayin you did that and that bla bla bla. Brother, sometime when I write, I can't show my emotions correctly. (This is not my original langue.) But trust, when I was writing these all, I was smileing all the time. :)
Peace

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 06:14:47 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 04:22:14 PM
Note added a little later:
Bornao, I am sorry I was so blunt and matter-of-fact with you, throughout our exchange. It expressed only my concern, but not my love for you, and I sincerely regret that. Yet you remained civil, gentle and sweet the whole way through. We have dealt with some harsh Muslims so maybe it was force of habit, but that certainly isn't an excuse. I am sorry for how I posted, and I hope you can forgive me for it.

Now I am ashamed. I read the Galileo Galilei thing which I wrote.

We are more upset about the anti-Gospel and anti-intellectual nature of the Roman Catholic church - during the dark ages - than you are, because it acted contrary to the Gospel, and those Gospel-contrary actions prevent people from picking up and reading the Gospel unto this day.

1Th 5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

You might have noticed our Arabic section, that includes links to an Arabic bible if that would make it easier for you to read. Also an Arabic audio Gospel that you can listen to:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=71.0

Unfortunately Islam continues to be anti-intellectual as evidenced by it's madrassas. Look at the educational system of the Taliban. That is the future of Islam. Or whichever faction is more murderous, violent, oppressive and reprobate than the Taliban. The Muslim Brotherhood is inciting the burning of churches, and Christians are being murdered everywhere they have influence. Whichever Islamic faction becomes the most evil and violent is who will be ruling over Muhammad's followers - over you - and deep down I believe you understand that.

We are mad about the Roman Church crusades and it's other murders of millions of Jews, Muslims AND CHRISTIANS because it prevents people from reading the Gospel and coming to know the love of the one true God, because your impression is that the Gospel is the opposite of the love that it in fact expresses. Read the Gospel and see if you can find one place where Christians are called to do anything other than to love everyone. Here is our law in a nutshell

Mark 12:29  And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments [is], Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this [is] the first commandment.  31 And the second [is] like, [namely] this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.  32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Mat 22:39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Whether those neighbors are Jews, Muslims or atheists.
And for how we are to treat our enemies?

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

There is nothing in the Gospel that contradicts the above verses.

Yet Islam continues it 1400 year reign of murder unto today with over 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world, just since 9-11.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Muhammad's true followers continue to engage in imperialistic conquest and murder as their prophet did, and commanded them to do.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

But Muhammad was ignorant to the Gospel or he would have known that the Gospel calls for Jesus' followers to love our neighbors, not fight and slay them. Thus he lied about the Gospel in that verse.

Qur'an Sura 33:26 Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things.

Muhammad's true followers continue to take down the "People of the Scripture Book", and cast terror into our hearts unto this day.
more here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2983.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 06:14:47 AMI thougt someone was shouting at me, showing my face with his finger and sayin you did that and that bla bla bla. Brother, sometime when I write, I can't show my emotions correctly. (This is not my original langue.) But trust, when I was writing these all, I was smileing all the time. :)
Peace

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 02:43:26 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 03, 2012, 03:17:50 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 03, 2012, 05:32:22 AMNo muslim is a muslim if he or she says Moses(Peace be upon him) or Jesus(puh) or Nuh(puh) or Lut(puh) or Abraham(puh) (or any other prophets) was a liar.

Simply parroting Ahmed Deedat won't make what you write magically come true. Are you lying now or were you lying before? You already rejected Moses prophecy to follow Muhammad. And you reject Jesus' prophecy to follow Muhammad.

I did a video on the lie that "Muslims believe in Jesus and all the prophets."
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2714.0
The simple fact of the matter is that Muslims believe IN Muhammad alone. The most that can be said about their belief in any of the prophets of the God of the Jews and Christians, is that they believe they existed, while rejecting the way they are revealed in the 1600 year record of Yahweh to mankind, to believe the EXACT OPPOSITE. Specifically to DISbelieve and reject them, because of your faith in Muhammad.

I don't reject any of the Creator's prophets.

That's good. So then you don't reject Jesus' prophecy of his own crucifixion, death and resurrection, because that is all that is all one needs to believe about the Messiah to begin to seek a relationship with Him, and come to know the love of the one true God through our Savior, and be saved from our sins rather than being separated from God forever.

Matthew 20:17 And Jesus going up to Jerusalem took the twelve disciples apart in the way, and said unto them, 18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, 19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

And you don't reject the prophet Jesus' stated purpose of it:

Mat 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

And you don't reject the other prophets accounts of Jesus death.

Matthew 27:50 Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost.
Mark 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.
Luke 23:46 And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.
John 19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

That's good! There's hope for you yet!

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 02:43:26 AMIf I wrote something like that, this must be a grammar mistake or something. Please show it to me and I correct it. (Just a quote is enouh.) And who is Ahmed Deedat and Muslim Ahmed Mehmet bla bla blas? I am just here to talk about Quran. Don't expect magical words from me, I am not a prophet or something like that. And I am not trying to convert you.

I watch the Ahmed Deedat thing. (Remember the man you wrote?) I watch the,   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=hct1MujfOWU
You know what I see. What I see is, they are not realy in a debate. Look at them. You can guess the answers and questions. And I am sure they both know that they can’t come to an agreement. This debate is not new between us. (This debate is about 1400 years old.) What I see is they are trying to make a call to all people. Like giving a message, “Wake up people. We all are created for purpose. We all gonna taste death and that’s not the end.” You know what I mean. They are trying to gain attention. There are sex clups around the world, drug dealers, rapists, kidnaping littel kids for their kidney,  alcoholism, and this and that. Debate is the best way to gain attention. You know… people love to take sides. Brother, are we, you and I, different? Yes, but not that much. We both trying to stay away from the sins. The way we believe can be different but we both know the eternal life is real. What I am trying to say, our real target (I am not sure if this word fits here) our real target must be the people who does not care gaining sins. 

What ever we say to each other, (You and me) none of us will convert our religions. Now if you realy want a fake debate with me I am in. I don’t have much time but I’m in. Tell me quikly than I erase this part.
(I prefere to answer your questions about Quran)

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 08:03:59 AM
I watch the Ahmed Deedat thing. (Remember the man you wrote?) I watch the,   http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=hct1MujfOWU
You know what I see. What I see is, they are not realy in a debate. Look at them. You can guess the answers and questions.

So don't waste your time with it but instead please review and address my three prior posts. (http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12533#msg12533)
Tragically Ahmed Deedat is a proven liar, who even created his own phony bible verse that fooled his adoring bible-ignorant followers into believing that Muhammad was not antichrist, as I expose in this video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_4_tbN-b_A
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=335.0

That isn't debate - it is taqiyyah.

That 7th century Muhammad proclaimed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, as revealed through all of the first century prophets and witnesses, isn't a debate but a matter of fact. Contrary to your claims, you must reject them all, to follow Muhammad alone.

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 08:30:11 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_4_tbN-b_A

Brother is that you voice? You are younger than I thouht.  :)
I watched the video. I am not good at Bible, I am just checking because you asked me. Here I found this if you are interested, http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=1+John+4&ver=kjv

By the way I searched the word taqiyyah in dictionary, but couldn't find it. What dose it mean?

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 09:10:53 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 08:30:11 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_4_tbN-b_A

Brother is that you voice? You are younger than I thouht.  :)

Yes that's my voice, but I'm 61! Maybe I've just got a girly voice! ;D
But I am a new (young) Christian because I wasn't born again until 2003.

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 09:10:53 AM
I watched the video. I am not good at Bible, I am just checking because you asked me.

You don't have to be good at anything. Simply listen to the verses I read and compare them against what Muhammad taught - which was the EXACT OPPOSITE.
Simply read the Gospel (http://and%20ask%20jesus%20for%20his%20help) while asking Jesus for His help with a contrite spirit, and Jesus will reveal Himself to you as He did with these folks.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus#g/u

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 09:10:53 AMHere I found this if you are interested, http://www.christnotes.org/bible.php?q=1+John+4&ver=kjv

By the way I searched the word taqiyyah in dictionary, but couldn't find it. What dose it mean?

Taqiyyah is lying in the way of Allah. When Muslims can't advance the goal of Da'wah in any other way they are allowed to engage in subterfuge, as Ahmed Deedat did in that video. He told the same lie on other occasions, even though Christian ministers had repeatedly corrected him. He simply went on lying.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMMr4lZx2E
Regarding Taqiyyah
Web search (http://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=Aj4vPlRqrUfFDaFV_bvFg.GbvZx4?p=taqiyyah&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8&fr=yfp-t-701)

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 09:16:23 AM


Yes that's my voice, but I'm 61! Maybe I've just got a girly voice! ;D
But I am a new (young) Christian because I wasn't born again until 2003.

61, unbelievable :) I would like to read your story sometime. (Becoming a Christian)

1 John 4

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Is that mean, the onse who does not believe Juses(PBH) come in the flesh, is from the devil? We believe he was a man. And Hz.Muhammed was not a man who speaks of world. Here is a proof:

If you search the word dunya, which means world

I passes 115 times

The word ahiret, (means other world) passes 115 times

Devil (Sheytan) 88
Angel (Melek) 88

Hell 77
Heaven 77

Woman 23
man 23

I can give lots of examples like that. Surah The Cow 2/200

200.    So when ye have accomplished your holy rites, celebrate the praises of Allah, as ye used to celebrate the praises of your fathers,- yea, with far more heart and soul. There are men who say: "Our Lord! Give us (Thy bounties) in this world!" but they will have no portion in the Hereafter.

I can give many...

Brodher, you realy don't like this Ahmed Deedat guy. Have you ever talk to him?

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 10:36:24 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 09:16:23 AM


Yes that's my voice, but I'm 61! Maybe I've just got a girly voice! ;D
But I am a new (young) Christian because I wasn't born again until 2003.

61, unbelievable :) I would like to read your story sometime. (Becoming a Christian)

I should write my testimony. I kind of remember doing one. I'll see if I can dig it up. I hope you make some time to listen to some of these folks testimonies.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus#g/u

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 10:36:24 AM1 John 4

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. 4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Is that mean, the onse who does not believe Juses(PBH) come in the flesh, is from the devil? We believe he was a man. And Hz.Muhammed was not a man who speaks of world.

Read it again. That is a test OF SPIRITS. Like when a spirit is speaking through someone that is "speaking in tongues".

I already showed you a test OF PERSONS but you ignored the post. Please click the following link, quote that post and address it now, along with the two posts that follow it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12533#msg12533

Quote from: Bornao on March 05, 2012, 10:36:24 AMHere is a proof:

If you search the word dunya, which means world

I passes 115 times

The word ahiret, (means other world) passes 115 times

Devil (Sheytan) 88
Angel (Melek) 88

Hell 77
Heaven 77

Woman 23
man 23

I can give lots of examples like that. Surah The Cow 2/200

200.    So when ye have accomplished your holy rites, celebrate the praises of Allah, as ye used to celebrate the praises of your fathers,- yea, with far more heart and soul. There are men who say: "Our Lord! Give us (Thy bounties) in this world!" but they will have no portion in the Hereafter.

I can give many...

Brodher, you realy don't like this Ahmed Deedat guy. Have you ever talk to him?

No. Many Christian ministers told him that what he was spreading was false, but he ignored them. He's dead now, but still very much alive on YouTube, through his fellow liars uploading his videos. A rare form of stroke rendered him unable to speak a word of his blasphemy for 9 years before he died.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=271.0

I don't like him because he was a deceptive lying antichrist that fooled people through his lies.
As you could see from the verses I read in my video, from the very same translation of the First Epistle of John that Deedat pretended to quote from, that Epistle proclaims the Son of God and remission of sin and salvation through faith in His shed blood. That very same Epistle condemns the false prophet Muhammad over and over and over again.

But it isn't me that made Ahmed Deedat a liar

1John 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 12:05:54 PM

I should write my testimony. I kind of remember doing one. I'll see if I can dig it up. I hope you make some time to listen to some of these folks testimonies.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus#g/u

Brother you should have.
By the way I watched the the testimony thing in youtube. I can't say they are all fake, but the "Emrah, A Turkish Muslim's Journey from Islam to Christ" is. He does not have the accent of a Turkish man who lived in Turkey. Something Like Amhed Dedat is not an English man. Even the mosque at the back is not in Turkey. Anyway...

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 12:05:54 PM
No. Many Christian ministers told him that what he was spreading was false, but he ignored them. He's dead now, but still very much alive on YouTube, through his fellow liars uploading his videos. A rare form of stroke rendered him unable to speak a word of his blasphemy for 9 years before he died.

I don't like him because he was a deceptive lying antichrist that fooled people through his lies.
As you could see from the verses I read in my video, from the very same translation of the First Epistle of John that Deedat pretended to quote from, that Epistle proclaims the Son of God and remission of sin and salvation through faith in His shed blood. That very same Epistle condemns the false prophet Muhammad over and over and over again.

Okay brother don't get angry, but I am not sure about your point. I seached te 1John.4 in google and I foun this. Don't get angry... But what I see is he is reading the part which I found. And if there is something wrong in his sayings forgive him. I am sure the ones who knows Bible better than us can see the wrong and ignore him. What we belive is the Surah: The Family Of Imran 3/133-134


133.    Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-

134.    Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and forgive (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good;-

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 12:05:54 PM
But it isn't me that made Ahmed Deedat a liar

You are really angry at this man, but you see, he made you so angry that you start making researchs etc. And it's a very good thing. If you are interested in searchings these kind of things, I can suggest you to clear your mind. I mean maybe Ahmed Dedat didn't clear his mind and made a mistake or something.
Forget about what he sad and what history tells etc. Focus on the books you have. These discussions are very old and endless. People are watching these kind of things only because they love to take sides. And only weak people convert to (Islam or Christianity) because of this kind of discussions. And you know what, this kind of discussions phushing away the ateist people who dosen't believe in the Creator. They say, "Look, they say there is God, but they don't even know how to worship. If there was a God they should have know hot to worship and we were discussing with them."

I am not ignoring any thing you post, I just couldn't have time to look at them. Sorry for the spelling mistakes, now I don't have time to fix tham. I got to go.
Peace

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 12:05:54 PM

I should write my testimony. I kind of remember doing one. I'll see if I can dig it up. I hope you make some time to listen to some of these folks testimonies.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus#g/u

Brother you should have.
By the way I watched the the testimony thing in youtube. I can't say they are all fake, but the "Emrah, A Turkish Muslim's Journey from Islam to Christ" is. He does not have the accent of a Turkish man who lived in Turkey. Something Like Amhed Dedat is not an English man. Even the mosque at the back is not in Turkey. Anyway...

You are simply putting effort into DISbelievief. To be a Turk doesn't someone simply have to be born in Turkey? Did it say either the guy or the mosque was in Turkey? Was it just a picture of some random mosque that was put on a green screen behind the guy? Can you provide a link?

Do you really think any Christian would lie about something like that? Unlike Islam, lying is not allowed in Christianity, but is a fast track to hell. All Muslims can lie about being a Muslim if denying it will save their own skin in this world, while many Christians are martyred every day all around the world, for simply refusing to deny Jesus Christ when it is demanded of them by Muhammad's followers.

Mat 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.

Just like happened in Turkey where 3 Christians were tortured, and then murdered by having their throats slit by Muslims, for not reciting Islamic prayer that was demanded of them, or renouncing their faith in Jesus Christ.
The Muslims said they killed the three Christians "in defense of Islam".
http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus#p/search/1/bFTGNGja6vI

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 12:05:54 PM
No. Many Christian ministers told him that what he was spreading was false, but he ignored them. He's dead now, but still very much alive on YouTube, through his fellow liars uploading his videos. A rare form of stroke rendered him unable to speak a word of his blasphemy for 9 years before he died.

I don't like him because he was a deceptive lying antichrist that fooled people through his lies.
As you could see from the verses I read in my video, from the very same translation of the First Epistle of John that Deedat pretended to quote from, that Epistle proclaims the Son of God and remission of sin and salvation through faith in His shed blood. That very same Epistle condemns the false prophet Muhammad over and over and over again.

Okay brother don't get angry, but I am not sure about your point. I seached te 1John.4 in google and I foun this. Don't get angry... But what I see is he is reading the part which I found.

No he isn't. I already explained that he created his own phony bible verse. Do you think I would lie about something like that? He spliced together two verses to create one of his own. It will be easier for you to see his fake verse in the text version, in which I thoroughly dissect what he did at this link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=335.0

Additionally, I already explained to you that the verse you found is a test of spirits. Like when a person talks in tongues, or like when a person meets a demon in a cave the way Muhammad did. He didn't try that spirit, and since Muhammad professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, we can rest assured he did indeed meet a demon in that cave. Satan is tricky:

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Yet even Muhammad was convinced it was a demon in that cave that felt like it tried to squeeze the life out of him 3 times. That is, until his wife Khadijah talked Muhammad out of it (Khadijah's father talked to demons all the time).
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1173.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AMAnd if there is something wrong in his sayings forgive him.

He repeated his lie over and over as the foundation of his whole false denial that Muhammad was antichrist. Lie upon lie upon lie. He's dead. It isn't up to us to forgive him, but the very one that he denied and blasphemed

Jhn 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

It is up to me to expose his lie to Muhammad's bible-ignorant followers. His whole premise is ridiculous. According to Deedat's understanding of the verse, a Satanist could honestly confess that Jesus is the Christ, and that would make him a true prophet. Here is the other video I did on Deedat's ridiculous understanding and claim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKMMr4lZx2E

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AMI am sure the ones who knows Bible better than us can see the wrong and ignore him.

Sadly Muhammad's followers don't ignore Deedat, but embrace him. Millions of Muhammad's followers were/are so easily deceived by Deedat because virtually none of them have ever read the Gospel. Why don't you ignore Deedat and stop wasting your time as I already recommended.
You are still running and hiding from the three posts I requested that you address.
This isn't about Deedat, but about the one true God as He revealed Himself through the scriptures. This is my third or fourth request for you to please quote and answer these posts in order.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12533#msg12533
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12536#msg12536
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12537#msg12537

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AMWhat we belive is the Surah: The Family Of Imran 3/133-134

133.    Be quick in the race for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Garden whose width is that (of the whole) of the heavens and of the earth, prepared for the righteous,-

134.    Those who spend (freely), whether in prosperity, or in adversity; who restrain anger, and forgive (all) men;- for Allah loves those who do good;-

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 12:05:54 PM
But it isn't me that made Ahmed Deedat a liar

You are really angry at this man, but you see, he made you so angry that you start making researchs etc.

I didn't need to research any of Deedat's blasphemy because I am a bible believing Christian. I'm not mad, but rather sad, for the millions of followers of Muhammad who loved having their ears ticked by Deedat's lies, as they marched merrily along in the EXACT OPPOSITE direction of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and in the direction of recycled, Mecca centered, historical Arabian paganism.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1227.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AMAnd it's a very good thing. If you are interested in searchings these kind of things, I can suggest you to clear your mind. I mean maybe Ahmed Dedat didn't clear his mind and made a mistake or something.

I wish it were so, but he repeated his lie on several occasions - his fake bible verse formed the whole basis of his denial that Muhammad was antichrist - but even after being repeatedly corrected by Christian ministers he just kept on repeating his fake bible verse. I already explained all that and you are ignoring it.

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AM
Forget about what he sad and what history tells etc. Focus on the books you have.

A Christian only needs a single verse to know that Muhammad's religion is the EXACT OPPOSITE of that revealed through the ONE true God of the bible.

surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

A Satanic lie from straight out of the pit of hell. The EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12537#msg12537

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AMThese discussions are very old and endless.

I don't believe this discussion is either old or endless. I think the truth was never so easily revealed or discussed as it has been for the last couple decades.
It is patently false to believe that Christianity is discussed, when in places like Saudi Arabia people are killed for discussing it. Proselytizing is illegal in Islamic countries, just as the penalty for a Muslim who comes to know the love of the one true God through a relationship with Jesus Christ, is killed for apostasy.
Again, from that same video a Turkey headline read, "10,000 have become Christians - Turkey gripped in fear", in apparent efforts to foment more violence against Christians.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus#p/search/1/bFTGNGja6vI

The scriptures are restricted or banned in 51 countries - both Islamic and communist - because neither doctrine can stand the light of the truth of the Gospel. Here's a map of them.
http://www.persecution.com/public/restrictednations.aspx?clickfrom=bWFpbl9tZW51

But Muhammad's victims in those closed countries are beginning to see the truth, which is that Jews and Christians follow the one true God of the bible, and Muhammad's followers follow Muhammad alone, through empty thinly veneered Sabian and Quraish pagan worship rituals.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1227.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AMPeople are watching these kind of things only because they love to take sides.

No the two sides are established and distinct. ONE MUST CHOOSE one side or the other.
The side of the ONE true God as revealed through all of His prophets and witnesses in the 1600 year record of the scriptures, that His people have followed through two covenants, for 3500 years.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Or the side of the mass murderer Muhammad http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2983.0 and his STAND-ALONE 23 year 7th century record that is the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=148.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AMAnd only weak people convert to (Islam or Christianity) because of this kind of discussions. And you know what, this kind of discussions phushing away the ateist people who dosen't believe in the Creator. They say, "Look, they say there is God, but they don't even know how to worship. If there was a God they should have know hot to worship and we were discussing with them."

Atheists just put more effort into disbelief than you do. All a person has to do is consider bible prophecy to believe in the God of the scriptures. Why don't you take a look at this thread that I spent a couple minutes revamping the other day.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2447.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AM
I am not ignoring any thing you post, I just couldn't have time to look at them. Sorry for the spelling mistakes, now I don't have time to fix tham. I got to go.
Peace

Don't worry about spelling. Simply address the three posts you have been ignoring.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12533#msg12533
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12536#msg12536
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12537#msg12537

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 06:02:37 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 03:27:35 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 12:05:54 PM

I should write my testimony. I kind of remember doing one. I'll see if I can dig it up. I hope you make some time to listen to some of these folks testimonies.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Muslims4Jesus#g/u

Brother you should have.
By the way I watched the the testimony thing in youtube. I can't say they are all fake, but the "Emrah, A Turkish Muslim's Journey from Islam to Christ" is. He does not have the accent of a Turkish man who lived in Turkey. Something Like Amhed Dedat is not an English man. Even the mosque at the back is not in Turkey. Anyway...

You are simply putting effort into DISbelievief. To be a Turk doesn't someone simply have to be born in Turkey? Did it say either the guy or the mosque was in Turkey? Was it just a picture of some random mosque that was put on a green screen behind the guy? Can you provide a link?

Here you are angry again. Take it easy :) He is not the representative of Christianity. I do believe there are people who convert to Christianity. But here what we have is not this. If you say you were Muslim ones, you must know how to pronounce, "Allah" Show me 70 man like that, I can clearly pick up the one who was Muslim ones. Forgot the pronouncyetion part. Here he says, "to me a religion motivated by fear." and "Allah is force, ready to hurt..." He dosen't haven an idea what islam is.
I can give lots of Surahs for this, but I will do better. In Quran the word punishment passes 117 times. The word forgive passes two times of it= 234
Ok.  ;)

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 06:02:37 AM
Do you really think any Christian would lie about something like that? Unlike Islam, lying is not allowed in Christianity, but is a fast track to hell. All Muslims can lie about being a Muslim, to save their own skin in this world, while many Christians are martyred every day all around the world, for simply refusing to deny Jesus Christ when it is demanded of them by Muhammad's followers.

lying is not allowed in Islam. Brother the word Islam is different from muslim. When you say Islam, it contains all the prophets that has been send by the Creator. And Muslims are not allowed to lie, too.

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 06:02:37 AM
Just like happened in Turkey where 3 Christians were tortured, and then murdered by having their throats slit by Muslims, for not reciting Islamic prayer that was demanded of them, or renouncing their faith in Jesus Christ.
The murderers said they killed the three men "in defense of Islam".

You realy don't want to clear your mind brother. What you know is what you have been showen. Make a search in youtube:christians kill muslims and eat their meets
(Watch it if you can. I couldn't)

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 06:02:37 AM
I don't like him because he was a deceptive lying antichrist that fooled people through his lies.
As you could see from the verses I read in my video, from the very same translation of the First Epistle of John that Deedat pretended to quote from, that Epistle proclaims the Son of God and remission of sin and salvation through faith in His shed blood. That very same Epistle condemns the false prophet Muhammad over and over and over again.

Ahmed Dedat is dead, but you still hate him. You know what we believe, after the taste of death, in the Judgment day the people who has problems will meet and solve it. I mean if I lie to you or stole something from you, you will find me there. Anyway...
About the false prophet part; false prophets come and go brother. Hundreds of, thousands of them came and go, without leaving anything behind. Lets say I am running for prophet. (Or imagine you do) Whow many people can we gain? Lets say alot. What then? After we die we will lose them all in time. Brother it has been 1400 years. I mean come on. It's a very long period of time. The Muslim number is increasing. Even the nations joining islam has been mentioned in Quran.

Surah The Help110/2
2.    And thou dost see the people enter Allah's Religion in crowds,

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 06:02:37 AM
No he isn't. I already explained that he created his own phony bible verse. Do you think I would lie about something like that? He spliced together two verses to create one of his own. It will be easier for you to see his fake verse in the text version, in which I thoroughly dissect what he did at this link

Okay, brother get it now. What you mean is he put two verses. Okay, I only checked the begining. (It's some kind of a habit. You know, we don't have verses ect.)

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 06:02:37 AM
Additionally, I already explained to you that the verse you found is a test of spirits. Like when a person talks in tongues, or like when a person meets a demon in a cave the way Muhammad did. He didn't try that spirit, and since Muhammad professed the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel, we can rest assured he did indeed meet a demon in that cave. Satan is tricky:

Brother, you miss something. What Hz.Muhammed saw was not a man.

Surah The Star 53/7-8-9

7.    While he was in the highest part of the horizon:   
8.    Then he approached and came closer,   
9.    And was at a distance of but two bow-lengths or (even) nearer;

And if Gabral was satan what about the things he said: Don't drink alchol, don't kill,  obey your Creator, do good thinks etc...

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 06:02:37 AM
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12533#msg12533
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12536#msg12536
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12537#msg12537

Sorry for ignoring them brother. But we realy write too much. (I forgat them when I write) From now on I will not write anything here before I watch them ok. Take it easy and Peace :)

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 06:11:13 AM

Those are not my thoughts. It comes from the scriptures.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Please read the verse again and comment. Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God or do you deny it?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

I thoht I was going to watch a long video when I ckick it. Sorry for making you wait.

Here is my answer:
If the, "SON of GOD" means Hz.Juses send by God, Yes, Hz.Juses is son of God.
If it means, he is belong to God, I mean all the people all the dogs and plants etc... Yes, he is one of the sons of God.
If you say Creator had a baby from a woman, NO. A BIG NO.
Creator can't do things which we can say in the same sentence.
Can't create a rock which he can't lift. Can't see one of his kind. Can't smoke a cigaret, drink wine, get drunk, sex, take a shit etc...
Ok :)

Wait for my next post please, I would like to answer all or I can forget them when I read yours. :)

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 10:13:34 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 06:11:13 AM

Those are not my thoughts. It comes from the scriptures.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Please read the verse again and comment. Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God or do you deny it?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

I thoht I was going to watch a long video when I ckick it. Sorry for making you wait.

Here is my answer:
If the, "SON of GOD" means Hz.Juses send by God, Yes, Hz.Juses is son of God.
If it means, he is belong to God, I mean all the people all the dogs and plants etc... Yes, he is one of the sons of God.
If you say Creator had a baby from a woman, NO. A BIG NO.
Creator can't do things which we can say in the same sentence.
Can't create a rock which he can't lift. Can't see one of his kind. Can't smoke a cigaret, drink wine, get drunk, sex, take a sh*t etc...
Ok :)

Wait for my next post please, I would like to answer all or I can forget them when I read yours. :)

But you didn't finish with this post. You failed to quote the rest of it. It ended:
______________________

Here are hundreds of verses regarding God the Father and His Son.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=611.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=610.0
_______________________

So go to this link and tell me who Jesus' Father is.
Did Mary conceive Jesus all by herself?
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=610.0

Then go to this link from that post and tell me who THE Son of God is.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=611.0

Who did God say His Son is?
Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Just as was prophesied of the Messiah so many hundreds of years before.

Psalms 2:6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 06:40:59 AM
Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

I thing what you are asking is; You say peace, peace, peace all the time, than what is this?
Right?
Before I start let me give you a information about Surah Repentance 9/

When we read Quran we start with, "In the name of Allah, who is Most Gracious, Most Merciful." Wacth it. This is the only surah that we don't say "Bismillahirrahmanirrahim"
And here we go,

All that years, I mean when Quran strats to come, all the muslims was told to live in peace. Don't hurt anybody, don't say bad words... Even pagan says a bad thing to their face, they were told to say "Peace" and go. Don't even argu with pagans. But, as the years pass by the pagans made their life miserable, so they start hejira to City Medine. At first the strong ones (who can take the journey) go to Medine to find places to live.  But Pagans started torturing the ones at Mecca. I prefere not to talk about the details. Muslims wanted their familys back from the pagans and the war starts. I hate history so I go fast...
Muslims and pagans made an agreement, and stopped fighting. But the pagans did not actually stop and made sudden attacks.
After that This surah came and it strats like this:

1.    A (declaration) of immunity from Allah and His Messenger, to those of the Pagans with whom ye have contracted mutual alliances:-

and go on...
If you want, you can read it.

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

I think this is about you? Don't you?  ;D

Watch the word "Katilüllezıneehlel" it says. Not, "ehlel kitab"
It's sayin the people of the book in translation (short way to say) But in the original it says the ones who was given book. Whats the point?
Here it is:

Muslims are ordered to feed the poor. We call it Zekat. But the Christians are not. And then pagans strats to say I am Christian. (See, they have given books, but does not even believe the other life.) So it says fight those, the pagans (not you my brother.) till they until they pay the Jizya with their hands.
-Allah knows best, this is only my translation-

30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

I forgot Jews sayin, "Ãœzeir is Allah's son. Brother, this is something you must think about it.

9/111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the Garden (of Paradise): they fight in His Cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in Truth, through the Torah, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his Covenant than Allah? Then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Brother, it dosen't say don't love your neighbors or something like that. You don't have any idea how many times the word love passes in Quran. You think it says, "Go! Kill the pagans, oo yeah!" or something like that. NO! Even saying bad words to a pagan's face is not permited in Islam. In Islam you only have right to fight back.

Qur'an Sura 33:26 Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things.

I think you are stock with the word "terror" here. In the original, I have never seen a word terror. It says put fear in their hards.

Here is what happened. I think the Scripture of the Book means, The Jews. Because they made an agreement with the pagans to attack Muslims (Although they have  agreement not to fight anymore.

Brother, what I see is, you think Quran is always talks about Christianity. Do you think we realy care about Christianity. Make a search in Quran. What you will see is our enemies are pagans.

Surah The Food/82

82.    Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

Peace Brother. We are nor enemies

Patient brother.
Please don't make comment before I finish those links. Just say "You forgot this" then I respond :) (tomorrow)

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 11:20:11 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 10:13:34 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 06:11:13 AM

Those are not my thoughts. It comes from the scriptures.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Please read the verse again and comment. Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God or do you deny it?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

I thoht I was going to watch a long video when I ckick it. Sorry for making you wait.

Here is my answer:
If the, "SON of GOD" means Hz.Juses send by God, Yes, Hz.Juses is son of God.
If it means, he is belong to God, I mean all the people all the dogs and plants etc... Yes, he is one of the sons of God.
If you say Creator had a baby from a woman, NO. A BIG NO.
Creator can't do things which we can say in the same sentence.
Can't create a rock which he can't lift. Can't see one of his kind. Can't smoke a cigaret, drink wine, get drunk, sex, take a sh*t etc...
Ok :)

Wait for my next post please, I would like to answer all or I can forget them when I read yours. :)

But you didn't finish with this post. You failed to quote the rest of it. It ended:

Brother, the links that you gave are the parts of Bible.
I believe in Quran, but I don't believe in the trasnlations of Quran.
And you expect me to believe in the translations and versions and translations of versions of Bible. Even the translations Quran has many mistakes and giving the right expression problems. (And this happens although we have a unchanged book in our hands.)
Look:

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 12:52:55 PM

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

I think this is about you? Don't you?  ;D

(Nooooo I was going to say, "You think this is about you? Not I think this is about you  :-[


Watch the word "Katilüllezıneehlel" in the original. What I see this word passes two times in whole Quran (They are all in the same Surah, in the Repentance 9/) and they translate the word "Katilüllezıneehlel" to "The people of the book"
Even they translate the word correct, what about the expression, what about translation made you feel? Are they right?
It looks like saying, "Kill the pagans!, where ever you find. Make tham pay their taxes."
And you know what, If I translate this English translation to Turkish it will be like that:

"Onlarla kavga edin, onlar ki; Allah'a, son güne, Allah'ın ve peygamberin yasaklarını kabul etmezler. Hak din İslam'ı din edinmeyen insanlarla, cizyeyi verinceye kadar kavgayı bitirmeyin."

And I am trasnlating to Enghish again:

Brawl (Puch and kick them) those, those ones who don't believe Allah, the end day and the Allah's and Prophets off-limits.  Don't stop punching and kicking the ones who dose not know the right dealing religion Islam, till they give cizye.

You know what, after that time we are going to use off-limit word instead of forbidden. And we all going to believe that Allah and Prophets has off-limits and this is what Quran is all about. And this reasinable. There is also a good philosophy under it.
Brother don't wait me to trust the translatinons of versions of Bible. 
Nobody can chage the word of Creator, it always remains. But these are translatinons and versions of Bible. They are not Bible.

I respect your belief, sorry if I hurt your feelings, but this is what I see.

And If you don't trust me about the translation problems. Again and again, I am asking you which language can you speak rather than English. Than I can show that translation problem easier.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 02:11:35 AM
And If you don't trust me about the translation problems. Again and again, I am asking you which language can you speak rather than English. Than I can show that translation problem easier.

I understand completely the problems with translating the Quran. Here's the way Gerd Rüdiger Puin, an authority on Qur'anic historical orthography, the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts, who is also a specialist in Arabic paleography, put it.

In the 1999 Atlantic Monthly article referenced below, Gerd Puin is quoted as saying that:[1]
My idea is that the Koran is a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants. The Qur’an claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen,’ or clear, but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur’anic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur’an is not comprehensible, if it can’t even be understood in Arabic, then it’s not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur’an claims repeatedly to be clear but is notâ€"there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on.

Words being washed off and replaced in the oldest Quran manuscript ever found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana%27a_manuscripts shows us that the Quran was still in the process of being changed long after Muhammad lived.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a7/SanaaQuoranDoubleVersions.jpg/350px-SanaaQuoranDoubleVersions.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_R._Puin

Compare that with Hebrew scribal methodology
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0

"To suggest there was tampering to the Old Testament documents prior to 300 B.C. shows a misunderstanding of Israelite scribal methodology and of their reverence for the Scriptures. First of all, biblical scrolls were written on the inside only to prevent any smudging or smearing that might lead to a misreading of the text. When being copied -- besides many parallel readings -- the copy was compared with the original in every way humanly possible.

The words in each column were counted and then the letters. The first, last, and middle letter and word in each column had to be identical to the original. If the number of words or the number of letters of the copy differed from the original, the copy was destroyed. Then they counted the words and letters in the whole document. They divided the document into quarters and into eighths. The first, last and middle letter in each section had to be the same. The number of words and the number of letters in each section had to be the same.  The middle word and the middle letter in each section had to be the same, and they had to be the same for the whole document. If not, the copy was destroyed. Not corrected, but destroyed!"

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 02:06:39 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 06, 2012, 11:20:11 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 10:13:34 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 05, 2012, 06:11:13 AM

Those are not my thoughts. It comes from the scriptures.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Please read the verse again and comment. Do you believe that Jesus is the Son of God or do you deny it?

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

I thoht I was going to watch a long video when I ckick it. Sorry for making you wait.

Here is my answer:
If the, "SON of GOD" means Hz.Juses send by God, Yes, Hz.Juses is son of God.
If it means, he is belong to God, I mean all the people all the dogs and plants etc... Yes, he is one of the sons of God.
If you say Creator had a baby from a woman, NO. A BIG NO.
Creator can't do things which we can say in the same sentence.
Can't create a rock which he can't lift. Can't see one of his kind. Can't smoke a cigaret, drink wine, get drunk, sex, take a sh*t etc...
Ok :)

Wait for my next post please, I would like to answer all or I can forget them when I read yours. :)

But you didn't finish with this post. You failed to quote the rest of it. It ended:

Brother, the links that you gave are the parts of Bible.
I believe in Quran, but I don't believe in the trasnlations of Quran.
And you expect me to believe in the translations and versions and translations of versions of Bible.

But ALL bible translations contain those HUNDREDS OF VERSES that proclaim the Father and His Son. You can go to the following link, and put any one of those hundreds of verses in the window, and then pick from a dozen different translations on the drop down menu at the top left and select and THEY WILL ALL SAY THE SAME THING, just in different words.
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

The New Testament was revealed in Koine Greek. In that same menu in the upper left you can also select the Greek/English word-for-word interlinear.

Mat 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.
2Pe 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Let's look at the last verse above in the interlinear, since that is the most complex and will be the most prone to variation.

(Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) 2 Peter 1:17 labwn <2983> (5631) {HAVING RECEIVED} gar <1063> {FOR} para <3844> {FROM} qeou <2316> {GOD [THE]} patroV <3962> {FATHER} timhn <5092> {HONOUR} kai <2532> {AND} doxan <1391> {GLORY,} fwnhV <5456> {A VOICE} enecqeishV <5342> (5685) {HAVING BEEN BROUGHT} autw <846> {TO HIM} toiasde <5107> {SUCH} upo <5259> {BY} thV <3588> {THE} megaloprepouV <3169> {VERY EXCELLENT} doxhV <1391> {GLORY:} outoV <3778> {THIS} estin <2076> (5748) {IS} o <3588> uioV <5207> mou <3450> {MY SON} o <3588> {THE} agaphtoV <27> {BELOVED,} eiV <1519> {IN} on <3739> {WHOM} egw <1473> {I} eudokhsa <2106> (5656) {HAVE FOUND DELIGHT.}

Now let's look at some translations.

(NKJV) 2 Peter 1:17 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."

(NASB) 2 Peter 1:17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, such an utterance as this was made to Him by the Majestic Glory, "This is My beloved Son with whom I am well-pleased"--

(CEV) 2 Peter 1:17 God, our great and wonderful Father, truly honored him by saying, "This is my own dear Son, and I am pleased with him."

(TEV) 2 Peter 1:17 We were there when he was given honor and glory by God the Father, when the voice came to him from the Supreme Glory, saying, "This is my own dear Son, with whom I am pleased!"

(RSV) 2 Peter 1:17 For when he received honor and glory from God the Father and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,"

(Rotherham) 2 Peter 1:17 For, when he received from God the Father honour and glory, a voice, being borne to him such as this, by the magnificent glory--My Son, the beloved, is, this, in whom, I, delight,

(BBE) 2 Peter 1:17 For God the Father gave him honour and glory, when such a voice came to him out of the great glory, saying, This is my dearly loved Son, with whom I am well pleased.

(Holman NT) 2 Peter 1:17 For when He received honor and glory from God the Father, a voice came to Him from the Majestic Glory: This is My beloved Son. I take delight in Him!

You can also find on that drop-down menu Strong's Definitions that picks apart each word in the Koine Greek and explores all the different senses and variations in meaning that it might have.
http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 02:06:39 AMEven the translations Quran has many mistakes and giving the right expression problems. (And this happens although we have a unchanged book in our hands.)

I realize that is what you have been taught to believe, but the Quran was collected up and various copies burned - on two separate occasions - and even after that, you can see in the image two posts back that the oldest manuscript shows it was still in a state of flux because of washing and changing.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 02:06:39 AM
Look:

Quote from: Bornao on March 06, 2012, 12:52:55 PM

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

I think this is about you? Don't you?  ;D

(Nooooo I was going to say, "You think this is about you? Not I think this is about you  :-[


Watch the word "Katilüllezıneehlel" in the original. What I see this word passes two times in whole Quran (They are all in the same Surah, in the Repentance 9/) and they translate the word "Katilüllezıneehlel" to "The people of the book"
Even they translate the word correct, what about the expression, what about translation made you feel? Are they right?
It looks like saying, "Kill the pagans!, where ever you find. Make tham pay their taxes."
And you know what, If I translate this English translation to Turkish it will be like that:

"Onlarla kavga edin, onlar ki; Allah'a, son güne, Allah'ın ve peygamberin yasaklarını kabul etmezler. Hak din İslam'ı din edinmeyen insanlarla, cizyeyi verinceye kadar kavgayı bitirmeyin."

And I am trasnlating to Enghish again:

Brawl (Puch and kick them) those, those ones who don't believe Allah, the end day and the Allah's and Prophets off-limits.  Don't stop punching and kicking the ones who dose not know the right dealing religion Islam, till they give cizye.

That communicates the same thing to me. Just as your scholars do.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2983.0
Bukhari, V1 B2 #24 Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform a that, then they save their lives an property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Sahih Al-Bukhari - "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite." page 580 of Maktba Dar-us-Salam's Sahih Al-Bukhari

Made all the more clear through the historical record that tells us that the rape, pillage and plunder of the Islamic first jihad conquered nearly the whole known world, until being stopped by suffering defeats in Tours France and Vienna Austria.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 02:06:39 AM
You know what, after that time we are going to use off-limit word instead of forbidden. And we all going to believe that Allah and Prophets has off-limits and this is what Quran is all about. And this reasinable. There is also a good philosophy under it.
Brother don't wait me to trust the translatinons of versions of Bible.

It isn't about translations. Somehow my emphasis was apparently not sufficient in prior posts. The WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel is the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah who saves all from sin who have faith in His shed blood.
Surely you can see that can't possibly be an error in translation since the WHOLE SUBJECT of the WHOLE GOSPEL is exactly that. WITNESS AFTER WITNESS, VERSE AFTER VERSE. Old Testament prophecy and New Testament prophecy. The WHOLE SUBJECT of the WHOLE BIBLE is about remission of sin through blood sacrifice, and the Old Testament (covenant) prophecy of the coming Messiah, and His New Testament (covenant) fulfillment as the final solution for remission of sin.

Leviticus 17:11 For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

I recently did a thread on the Passover Lamb of God in prophecy.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3080.0

Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

Please read the following thread or click on the videos on that link regarding the crucifixion of the Messiah in prophecy.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2641.0

It isn't about translation because you MUST reject ALL of the prophets and witnesses of the one true God Yahweh, as revealed in His 1600 year record, to follow Muhammad.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 02:06:39 AM
Nobody can chage the word of Creator, it always remains. But these are translatinons and versions of Bible. They are not Bible.

I respect your belief, sorry if I hurt your feelings, but this is what I see.

My friend, how could my feelings be hurt? I am with the ONE true God of the Jews and Christians, as He revealed Himself through ALL of His prophets and witnesses in His 1600 year record of revelation to mankind, that His people have followed through two covenants for 3500 years. I am born again and enjoy a personal relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I am in Jesus Christ, and He is in me.

You follow Muhammad alone through his 23 year 7th century record, that proclaims the EXACT OPPOSITE of the WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel.

Earlier you quoted to me from your own book:

Sura 5:47 Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

By Muhammad's day the bible had been translated into every popular language, had been copied tens of thousands of times, and had been read all over the known world for centuries. The WHOLE SUBJECT of the Gospel was the crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah, in the FIRST CENTURY in Muhammad's SEVENTH CENTURY as it is today. The crucifixion, death and resurrection of the Messiah. Was Muhammad lying or just plain ignorant, for him to have made such an egregious error in recommendation?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 05:39:04 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 02:11:35 AM
And If you don't trust me about the translation problems. Again and again, I am asking you which language can you speak rather than English. Than I can show that translation problem easier.

I understand completely the problems with translating the Quran. Here's the way Gerd Rüdiger Puin, an authority on Qur'anic historical orthography, the study and scholarly interpretation of ancient manuscripts, who is also a specialist in Arabic paleography, put it.

In the 1999 Atlantic Monthly article referenced below, Gerd Puin is quoted as saying that:[1]
My idea is that the Koran is a kind of cocktail of texts that were not all understood even at the time of Muhammad. Many of them may even be a hundred years older than Islam itself. Even within the Islamic traditions there is a huge body of contradictory information, including a significant Christian substrate; one can derive a whole Islamic anti-history from them if one wants. The Qur’an claims for itself that it is ‘mubeen,’ or clear, but if you look at it, you will notice that every fifth sentence or so simply doesn’t make sense. Many Muslims will tell you otherwise, of course, but the fact is that a fifth of the Qur’anic text is just incomprehensible. This is what has caused the traditional anxiety regarding translation. If the Qur’an is not comprehensible, if it can’t even be understood in Arabic, then it’s not translatable into any language. That is why Muslims are afraid. Since the Qur’an claims repeatedly to be clear but is notâ€"there is an obvious and serious contradiction. Something else must be going on.

Words being washed off and replaced in the oldest Quran manuscript ever found http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sana%27a_manuscripts shows us that the Quran was still in the process of being changed long after Muhammad lived.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a7/SanaaQuoranDoubleVersions.jpg/350px-SanaaQuoranDoubleVersions.jpg)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerd_R._Puin

Compare that with Hebrew scribal methodology
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=97.0

"To suggest there was tampering to the Old Testament documents prior to 300 B.C. shows a misunderstanding of Israelite scribal methodology and of their reverence for the Scriptures. First of all, biblical scrolls were written on the inside only to prevent any smudging or smearing that might lead to a misreading of the text. When being copied -- besides many parallel readings -- the copy was compared with the original in every way humanly possible.

The words in each column were counted and then the letters. The first, last, and middle letter and word in each column had to be identical to the original. If the number of words or the number of letters of the copy differed from the original, the copy was destroyed. Then they counted the words and letters in the whole document. They divided the document into quarters and into eighths. The first, last and middle letter in each section had to be the same. The number of words and the number of letters in each section had to be the same.  The middle word and the middle letter in each section had to be the same, and they had to be the same for the whole document. If not, the copy was destroyed. Not corrected, but destroyed!"

Brother what you found (in internet) is not the oldes Quran copy. Sorry for that ;D

And if you ever foud the oldest one you know what (by the way can clearly say you are not reading all things I write :'() Iti's not the scripts that carries Quran to our times. It's the Hafizuns. Ok?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 06:44:18 AM
Sahih Al-Bukhari - "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite." page 580 of Maktba Dar-us-Salam's Sahih Al-Bukhari

Here comes the History Brother again. Muslims sad that, Bukhari sad that....

What abou 9 11? Now everybody knows it was not muslims who did that. And killing more than 30.000 civilians in Afkanistan. That bombs does not say, "Stop! this is a baby." Or what about Irak. What were you doing there? Isn't Irak thousands of miles away from you? Waht about the kids and children there? Killing people like that is okay with christianity. How many orphans have you left there?

I don't want to talk about these brother. Nobody is the representative of his/her religion. If you want to ask me queastions about Quran, ask.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 07:29:34 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 06:44:18 AM
Sahih Al-Bukhari - "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite." page 580 of Maktba Dar-us-Salam's Sahih Al-Bukhari

Here comes the History Brother again. Muslims sad that, Bukhari sad that....

No, Muslims DID THAT. Conquered nearly the whole known world during the Islamic first jihad all the way up to France and Austria, just as Muhammad himself engaged in imperialistic conquest, and dictated that his true followers do.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 07:29:34 AMWhat abou 9 11? Now everybody knows it was not muslims who did that.

Come on, my friend, citing some conspiracy nuts won't change the historical record of the Islamic First Jihad, or the fact that there have been over 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 (http://www.thereligionofpeace.com) by Muhammad's TRUE FUNDAMENTAL FOLLOWERS that GET ISLAM, and do what they can to do as Muhammad did and told them to do.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 07:29:34 AMAnd killing more than 30.000 civilians in Afkanistan. That bombs does not say, "Stop! this is a baby." Or what about Irak.

I showed you repeatedly where THE QURAN and the Hadith call Muhammad's followers to fight and slay non-Muslims into submission to Muhammad's followers.
Now show me where THE GOSPEL calls the followers of Jesus Christ to engage in anything of the kind.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 07:29:34 AMWhat were you doing there?

I wasn't. I live in the U.S.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 07:29:34 AMIsn't Irak thousands of miles away from you?

Ron Paul asks the same question.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 07:29:34 AMWaht about the kids and children there? Killing people like that is okay with christianity. How many orphans have you left there?

I don't want to talk about these brother. Nobody is the representative of his/her religion. If you want to ask me queastions about Quran, ask.

The reason you don't want to talk about it is that THE QURAN calls Muhammad's followers to fight, slay, and perpetrate violence against non-Muslims, and subjugate and enslave others, while THE GOSPEL calls Jesus' followers to love our neighbors, and even our enemies.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:07:23 AM
The reason you don't want to talk about it is that THE QURAN calls Muhammad's followers to fight slay and perpetrate violence against non-Muslims

Brother if there is something like that in Quran I can clearly say "YES AND HERE IT IS." 
Tell me the Surah and the ayeth number than I answer that. Ok?

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 08:20:06 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:07:23 AM
The reason you don't want to talk about it is that THE QURAN calls Muhammad's followers to fight slay and perpetrate violence against non-Muslims

Brother if there is something like that in Quran I can clearly say "YES AND HERE IT IS." 
Tell me the Surah and the ayeth number than I answer that. Ok?

I already did but you want to pretend it doesn't exist, just like you want to pretend the Islamic First Jihad never happened, and that somehow the true fundamental followers of Muhammad today - the terrorists - are wrong and you are right.

Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

But they'd be just as happy to cut your head of as a hypocrite renegade, as they would mine. Again,

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Muhammad even orders up his alter-ego "Allah's" curse on Yahweh's people like some sort of a voodoo incantation. Thus it is painfully obvious that Muslims DO NOT worship the God of the Jews and Christians.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

That is of course a satanic lie regarding the Gospel, but SLAYING NON-MUSLIMS IN "ALLAH'S" CAUSE IS BINDING ON MUHAMMAD'S FOLLOWERS IN THE QURAN!

Making it even more obvious that Muslims do not worship the God of the Jews and Christians but follow the murderous father of lies, and death and destruction, both physical and spiritual. The Quran continually revealed as the EXACT OPPOSITE of the Gospel.

Galatians 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

John 13:35 By this shall all [men] know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Now I showed you where the Quran calls Muhammad's followers to fight and subjugate others.
Now it's your turn to show me where the Gospel calls Jesus' followers to fight and subjugate others. Why not start with the Gospel of John?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

More on the love of God from that first Epistle Deedat pretended to quote from:

(KJV) 1 John 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.   8  He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.   9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.    10  Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.   11 Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another.   12  No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.   13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.    14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.    15  Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.   16 And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/first_epistle_john.htm#1_john_4_7

My friend, all I can do is show you the truth of the Gospel as confirmed by history, archaeology, geography and particularly through fulfilled bible prophecy. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2447.0
I've read the Quran cover to cover - every word - in chronological order. Have you ever read even one book of the Gospel? If not why not?
sura 4:136 O ye who believe! Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and the scripture which He hath sent to His Messenger and the scripture which He sent to those before (him). Any who denieth Allah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Day of Judgment, hath gone far, far astray.

How can you believe in something you've never read?

Sura 80.13 (It is) in Books held (greatly) in honour, 14 Exalted (in dignity), kept pure and holy,15 (Written) by the hands of scribes- 16 Honourable and Pious and Just.
sura 5:48 To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Do you trust God to show you the truth?
Why don't you read the Gospel now, while asking Jesus for help in understanding?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm
Nobody in the world can "convert" you. Only Jesus can change a person's heart. Beginning a relationship with Him is a matter between the two of you. All you have to do is humbly ask Him for His help.

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Bornao,

If I recall correctly you are from Turkey. Correct? Do you think you would be a muslim now if Islam had not conquered Turkey in the first century of Islam's existence? Why do you believe they were conquering in the first place?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM

I already did but you want to pretend it doesn't exist, and that somehow the true fundamental followers of Muhammad - the terrorists - are wrong and you are right. But they'd be just as happy to cut your head of as a hypocrite renegade, as they would mine. Again,

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Brother I did answer that.

No, sorry for that. I wrote wrong.  I wrote Katilüllezıne instead of "utül kitübe hatta" And I am saying again it's about the pagans, not Christians and Jews. The ones who dose not believe in Creator and so on... ( The Surah 929)
(I would be happy if you erase the word Katilüllezıne in my previous post)

To make you understan better here is Surah The Spider29/46

46.    And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except in the best way, unless it be with those of them who do wrong: but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you. Our God and your God is One; and it is to Him we submit (in Isl�m)."

Surah The Examined One60/8

8.    Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

These are some proofs what I heve been saying. Ok?

You can't attack even a pagan if he dose not attacks you. You are only allowed to fight back.

And about Surah 9/30

Yes, Jews called Ãœzeyir the son of God. And you are doing the something. What can I do about it? Talk the Jews, tell them about your belief. Tell tham that you believe Hz.Jesus is son of God, not Ãœzeyir.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 09:34:01 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM

I already did but you want to pretend it doesn't exist, and that somehow the true fundamental followers of Muhammad - the terrorists - are wrong and you are right. But they'd be just as happy to cut your head of as a hypocrite renegade, as they would mine. Again,

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Brother I did answer that.

No, sorry for that. I wrote wrong.  I wrote Katilüllezıne instead of "utül kitübe hatta" And I am saying again it's about the pagans, not Christians and Jews. The ones who dose not believe in Creator and so on... ( The Surah 929)

Read it again.
But even more sadly, it is Satan himself - the father of lies - that has deceived you through the spirit of antichrist, to the fact that it would be just as evil to slay and subjugate pagans, as the People of the Book.

Furthermore sura 29 that you quoted from was from Muhammad's early Mecca days, and those less violent verses are abrogated by his post Hijra Medina suras that call his people to imperialistic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims. If you read the Quran in chronological order you will see the transformation to pure evil more easily. The following link lists the chronological order.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=609.0
More on Abrogation
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
Sura 9 that I quoted from is the second to last sura, in chronological order of "revelation", of all 114 suras, so it takes precedence over all that earlier Mecca stuff including Muhammad's "no compulsion in religion" drivel.
This is why Muhammad's TRUE FOLLOWERS have been murdering and subjugating non-Muslims all around the world for 1400 years.

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 07, 2012, 09:22:03 AM
Bornao,

If I recall correctly you are from Turkey. Correct? Do you think you would be a muslim now if Islam had not conquered Turkey in the first century of Islam's existence? Why do you believe they were conquering in the first place?

Brother, you have no idea how many times I sad there is no got. And what I believe, (Allah knows best) saying I am muslim is not enough. I also believe saying I am Christian is not enough. You have to obey the rules of your belief. Look at your book and do what the prophets ordered to do. Circumcision, prey, baptism, don't drink alchol, no sex between single people, don't marry and divorce like you are dating ect...
(I am not saying you are doing bad things, these are my thoughts)

As a man who sad the is no God, my answer is, yes. I think I was going to be Muslim again. And brother, maybe you are interested, what I see atheists does not choosing Christianty as a religion here. Let me expain like that: When a Christian says to an unbeliever, "God has a son", it looks like a myth, like Greek Gods. You lisen to them in patient and strat counting the seconds and wait till he changes the  subject. Brother you know what, Atheist do believe in the Creator. But can't shape it. There is something deep inside telling there is something, but can't, can't, can't shape it. Even you catch a shape what you see is your imagination. Let me explain you like that. Lets say you don't believe anything and close your eyes. Go back in the time when there wasn't time. Nothing, just nothing around. Even your imagination is not there. What you find is nothing. If there is something in the very begining, you can't even call it something. It has no and and no begining. It is beyond the time and beyond everything you can imagine.
Now, if some one tells me he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine. The angels, even the prophets are not close to him.
Don't tell me having a son doesn't make God less, and he can do anything he wants, than I ask:
Can he create a rock which he can't lift?

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AMNow, if some one tells me ......

It isn't some random someone, but God Himself that tells us.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM........ he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine.

You just contradicted yourself. You said our Creator is beyond everything we can imagine, and then you limited our Creator to what YOU can imagine, while rejecting and blaspheming the way God revealed Himself to us.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

It is true scripture refers to sons of God in the Old and New Testaments. But the following verses use the definite article "the" and refer to the singular Son of God. Just as THE prophesied Son of God was foretold in these (and other) Old Testament verses:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Psalms 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0410 'el {ale}
shortened from 0352; TWOT - 93a; n m
AV - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1,
Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245
1) god, god-like one, mighty one

Confirmed in the New Testament:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

PDF tract of these verses with folding instructions: "Jesus" http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm#tract_m4
YouTube of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

The first verse is a Christophany where Jesus showed Himself hundreds of years before He was made manifest to the world:

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some verses from the New Testament:

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Jhn 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

And, as channeled through the false prophet:

Quran Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Matthew 3:17 And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Matthew 17:5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

Matthew 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Mark 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, [saying], Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

Mar 5:7 And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, [thou] Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

Mark 9:7 And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and [that] hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

Mark 14:61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Christ, the Son of the Blessed?

Luke 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

Luke 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

Luke 9:35 And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

Luke 10:6 And if the son of peace be there, your peace shall rest upon it: if not, it shall turn to you again.

Luke 10:22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and [he] to whom the Son will reveal [him].

John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

John 3:35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

John 5:19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

John 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

John 5:21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth [them]; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.

John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:

John 5:23 That all [men] should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.

John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

John 6:69 And we believe and are sure that thou art that Christ, the Son of the living God.

John 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: [but] the Son abideth ever.

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

John 14:13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

John 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

Acts 3:13 The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let [him] go.

Acts 3:26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.

Romans 1:3 Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh;

Romans 1:9 For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers;

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

1Corinthians 1:9 God [is] faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

1Corinthians 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Galatians 1:16 To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

Galatians 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:

1Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by [his] Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

Hebrews 7:28 For the law maketh men high priests which have infirmity; but the word of the oath, which was since the law, [maketh] the Son, who is consecrated for evermore.

2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

1John 1:3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship [is] with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

1John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

1John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

1John 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

1John 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1John 4:10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins.

1John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son [to be] the Saviour of the world.

1John 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1John 5:11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1John 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

2John 1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

2John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.


Quran Surah 9.30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:00:12 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 09:34:01 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM

I already did but you want to pretend it doesn't exist, and that somehow the true fundamental followers of Muhammad - the terrorists - are wrong and you are right. But they'd be just as happy to cut your head of as a hypocrite renegade, as they would mine. Again,

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Brother I did answer that.

No, sorry for that. I wrote wrong.  I wrote Katilüllezıne instead of "utül kitübe hatta" And I am saying again it's about the pagans, not Christians and Jews. The ones who dose not believe in Creator and so on... ( The Surah 929)

Read it again.
But even more sadly, it is Satan himself - the father of lies - that has deceived you through the spirit of antichrist, to the fact that it would be just as evil to slay and subjugate pagans, as the People of the Book.

Furthermore sura 29 that you quoted from was from Muhammad's early Mecca days, and those less violent verses are abrogated by his post Hijra Medina suras that call his people to imperialistic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims. If you read the Quran in chronological order you will see the transformation to pure evil more easily. The following link lists the chronological order.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=609.0
More on Abrogation
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
Sura 9 that I quoted from is the second to last sura, in chronological order of "revelation", of all 114 suras, so it takes precedence over all that earlier Mecca stuff including Muhammad's "no compulsion in religion" drivel.
This is why Muhammad's TRUE FOLLOWERS have been murdering and subjugating non-Muslims all around the world for 1400 years.

Brother the is not "even if they are" in the original. And it's not sayin Ehlel Kitab

Here it is... show me the word Elel kitab in latin latters. AAAAAAAAA : )

Katilüllezıne la yü'minune billahi ve la bil yevmil ahıri ve la yühürrimune ma harremallahü ve rasulühu ve la yedınune dınel hakkı minellezıne utül kitübe hatta yu'tul cizyete ay yediv vehüm sağırun


Show me where it is.
And it says the ones who does not believe in the eternal life and who does not believe God and who does not believe the Got and prophet's sin orders.
Which of these fixes you?
Don't you believe Allah?
Don't you believe eternal life?
Don't you believe you must get away of the sins?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:00:12 AM
Furthermore sura 29 that you quoted from was from Muhammad's early Mecca days

It is Surah 9 not 29. And except ayeth 128 and 129 They all come at Medine.

And here comes the history Brother again.
Are we going to talk about our side of history view? If you give me one I can give you seven. But I will not. Use internet for it. Or look at the TV news...

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:56:56 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AMNow, if some one tells me ......

It isn't some random someone, but God Himself that tells us.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM........ he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine.

You just contradicted yourself. You said our Creator is beyond everything we can imagine, and then you limited our Creator to what YOU can imagine, while rejecting and blaspheming the way God revealed Himself to us.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

It is true scripture refers to sons of God in the Old and New Testaments. But the following verses use the definite article "the" and refer to the singular Son of God. Just as THE prophesied Son of God was foretold in these (and other) Old Testament verses:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Psalms 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0410 'el {ale}
shortened from 0352; TWOT - 93a; n m
AV - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1,
Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245
1) god, god-like one, mighty one

Confirmed in the New Testament:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

PDF tract of these verses with folding instructions: "Jesus" http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm#tract_m4
YouTube of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

The first verse is a Christophany where Jesus showed Himself hundreds of years before He was made manifest to the world:

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some verses from the New Testament:

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Jhn 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

And, as channeled through the false prophet:

Quran Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Brother these are all your belief. What do you want me to say?
When I say beyond I mean beyond. Creator can't do the things created ones do. Kiss, sex, jump, sleep... Creator is beyond everything.
Just like, I am king of my house, I can do anything in my house.
BUT I can't drow picture on the TV screan like a baby. I am beyond that. Am I clear?

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:09:21 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:00:12 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 09:34:01 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM

I already did but you want to pretend it doesn't exist, and that somehow the true fundamental followers of Muhammad - the terrorists - are wrong and you are right. But they'd be just as happy to cut your head of as a hypocrite renegade, as they would mine. Again,

Surah 9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. 30 The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Brother I did answer that.

No, sorry for that. I wrote wrong.  I wrote Katilüllezıne instead of "utül kitübe hatta" And I am saying again it's about the pagans, not Christians and Jews. The ones who dose not believe in Creator and so on... ( The Surah 929)

Read it again.
But even more sadly, it is Satan himself - the father of lies - that has deceived you through the spirit of antichrist, to the fact that it would be just as evil to slay and subjugate pagans, as the People of the Book.

Furthermore sura 29 that you quoted from was from Muhammad's early Mecca days, and those less violent verses are abrogated by his post Hijra Medina suras that call his people to imperialistic conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims. If you read the Quran in chronological order you will see the transformation to pure evil more easily. The following link lists the chronological order.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=609.0
More on Abrogation
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=116.0
Sura 9 that I quoted from is the second to last sura, in chronological order of "revelation", of all 114 suras, so it takes precedence over all that earlier Mecca stuff including Muhammad's "no compulsion in religion" drivel.
This is why Muhammad's TRUE FOLLOWERS have been murdering and subjugating non-Muslims all around the world for 1400 years.

Brother the is not "even if they are" in the original. And it's not sayin Ehlel Kitab

Here it is... show me the word Elel kitab in latin latters. AAAAAAAAA : )

Katilüllezıne la yü'minune billahi ve la bil yevmil ahıri ve la yühürrimune ma harremallahü ve rasulühu ve la yedınune dınel hakkı minellezıne utül kitübe hatta yu'tul cizyete ay yediv vehüm sağırun


Show me where it is.

009.029 PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:09:21 AMAnd it says the ones who does not believe in the eternal life and who does not believe God and who does not believe the Got and prophet's sin orders.
Which of these fixes you?
Don't you believe Allah?

Absolutely not. I do not believe in the Arabiah pagan deity Allah, because he revealed the EXACT OPPOSITE of that revealed by the ONE TRUE GOD OF THE SCRIPTURES - YHWH. Muhammad even ordered his alter-ego "Allah's" curse on Yahweh's people.

It would be pure unadulterated blasphemy for me to be forbidden by Muhammad because I would be rejecting THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL, and ALL of the prophets and witnesses of the ONE TRUE GOD YAHWEH.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:09:21 AM
Don't you believe eternal life?
Don't you believe you must get away of the sins?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:00:12 AM
Furthermore sura 29 that you quoted from was from Muhammad's early Mecca days

It is Surah 9 not 29. And except ayeth 128 and 129 They all come at Medine.

And here comes the history Brother again.

I said 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world JUST SINCE 9-11. You see, you want to forget yesterday as well because it is too horrible for you to face. Whether the slaughter of non-Muslims or Islamic so-called "honor" killings, or the mutual murder of Sunnis and Shiites.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

But you ignored the WHOLE POINT which is that it is JUST AS SATANIC to slay and subjugate pagans as it is anybody else.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:09:21 AM
Are we going to talk about our side of history view? If you give me one I can give you seven. But I will not. Use internet for it. Or look at the TV news...

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:56:56 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AMNow, if some one tells me ......

It isn't some random someone, but God Himself that tells us.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM........ he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine.

You just contradicted yourself. You said our Creator is beyond everything we can imagine, and then you limited our Creator to what YOU can imagine, while rejecting and blaspheming the way God revealed Himself to us.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

It is true scripture refers to sons of God in the Old and New Testaments. But the following verses use the definite article "the" and refer to the singular Son of God. Just as THE prophesied Son of God was foretold in these (and other) Old Testament verses:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Psalms 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0410 'el {ale}
shortened from 0352; TWOT - 93a; n m
AV - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1,
Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245
1) god, god-like one, mighty one

Confirmed in the New Testament:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

PDF tract of these verses with folding instructions: "Jesus" http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm#tract_m4
YouTube of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

The first verse is a Christophany where Jesus showed Himself hundreds of years before He was made manifest to the world:

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some verses from the New Testament:

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Jhn 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

And, as channeled through the false prophet:

Quran Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Brother these are all your belief.

No. Those are just some of the verses that declare the Son of God that you blaspheme to follow Muhammad.
The most important thing to believe is that the Son of God was crucified, died and was resurrected to save us from sin through faith in His shed blood. THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL - INDEED OF THE BIBLE. Just as was prophesied so many hundreds of years in advance.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AMWhat do you want me to say?
When I say beyond I mean beyond. Creator can't do the things created ones do. Kiss, sex, jump, sleep... Creator is beyond everything.
Just like, I am king of my house, I can do anything in my house.
BUT I can't drow picture on the TV screan like a baby. I am beyond that. Am I clear?

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:31:15 AM

SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

See, I am not lying. It is a translation problm. Not "Ehlel kitab" it is "who have been hgiven the book" ok?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:31:15 AM
Absolutely not. I do not believe in the Arabiah pagan deity Allah, because he revealed the EXACT OPPOSITE of that revealed by the ONE TRUE GOD OF THE SCRIPTURES - YHWH. Muhammad even ordered his alter-ego "Allah's" curse on Yahweh's people.

Okay than. You don't believe in Creator. What can I do for you?
Don't expect me to do something bad to you. I don't want it AND even I want to do something to you, guess what... I am not ALLOWED to. BECAUSE WE ARE NOT FIGHTING AND SO I CAN'T FIGHT BACK. Ok?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:31:15 AM
I said 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world JUST SINCE 9-11. You see, you want to forget yesterday as well because it is too horrible for you to face. Whether the slaughter of non-Muslims or Islamic so-called "honor" killings, or the mutual murder of Sunnis and Shiites.

Brother, it's your TV channels say it was not a Muslim thing.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:56:56 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AMNow, if some one tells me ......

It isn't some random someone, but God Himself that tells us.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM........ he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine.

You just contradicted yourself. You said our Creator is beyond everything we can imagine, and then you limited our Creator to what YOU can imagine, while rejecting and blaspheming the way God revealed Himself to us.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

It is true scripture refers to sons of God in the Old and New Testaments. But the following verses use the definite article "the" and refer to the singular Son of God. Just as THE prophesied Son of God was foretold in these (and other) Old Testament verses:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Psalms 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0410 'el {ale}
shortened from 0352; TWOT - 93a; n m
AV - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1,
Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245
1) god, god-like one, mighty one

Confirmed in the New Testament:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

PDF tract of these verses with folding instructions: "Jesus" http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm#tract_m4
YouTube of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

The first verse is a Christophany where Jesus showed Himself hundreds of years before He was made manifest to the world:

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some verses from the New Testament:

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Jhn 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

And, as channeled through the false prophet:

Quran Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Brother these are all your belief.

No. Those are just some of the verses that declare the Son of God that you blaspheme to follow Muhammad.
The most important thing to believe is that the Son of God was crucified, died and was resurrected to save us from sin through faith in His shed blood. THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL - INDEED OF THE BIBLE. Just as was prophesied so many hundreds of years in advance.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AMWhat do you want me to say?
When I say beyond I mean beyond. Creator can't do the things created ones do. Kiss, sex, jump, sleep... Creator is beyond everything.
Just like, I am king of my house, I can do anything in my house.
BUT I can't drow picture on the TV screan like a baby. I am beyond that. Am I clear?

So long, I can't even think about reading it. If it is about Bible, that's not my business.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:54:12 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:56:56 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AMNow, if some one tells me ......

It isn't some random someone, but God Himself that tells us.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM........ he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine.

You just contradicted yourself. You said our Creator is beyond everything we can imagine, and then you limited our Creator to what YOU can imagine, while rejecting and blaspheming the way God revealed Himself to us.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

It is true scripture refers to sons of God in the Old and New Testaments. But the following verses use the definite article "the" and refer to the singular Son of God. Just as THE prophesied Son of God was foretold in these (and other) Old Testament verses:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Psalms 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0410 'el {ale}
shortened from 0352; TWOT - 93a; n m
AV - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1,
Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245
1) god, god-like one, mighty one

Confirmed in the New Testament:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

PDF tract of these verses with folding instructions: "Jesus" http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm#tract_m4
YouTube of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

The first verse is a Christophany where Jesus showed Himself hundreds of years before He was made manifest to the world:

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some verses from the New Testament:

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Jhn 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

And, as channeled through the false prophet:

Quran Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Brother these are all your belief.

No. Those are just some of the verses that declare the Son of God that you blaspheme to follow Muhammad.
The most important thing to believe is that the Son of God was crucified, died and was resurrected to save us from sin through faith in His shed blood. THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL - INDEED OF THE BIBLE. Just as was prophesied so many hundreds of years in advance.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AMWhat do you want me to say?
When I say beyond I mean beyond. Creator can't do the things created ones do. Kiss, sex, jump, sleep... Creator is beyond everything.
Just like, I am king of my house, I can do anything in my house.
BUT I can't drow picture on the TV screan like a baby. I am beyond that. Am I clear?

So long, I can't even think about reading it. If it is about Bible, that's not my business.

That's right because you must reject the one true God of the bible, to follow the father of lies, through his prophet Muhammad's stand-alone 23 year 7th century record who professed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:56:44 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:54:12 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:56:56 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AMNow, if some one tells me ......

It isn't some random someone, but God Himself that tells us.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM........ he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine.

You just contradicted yourself. You said our Creator is beyond everything we can imagine, and then you limited our Creator to what YOU can imagine, while rejecting and blaspheming the way God revealed Himself to us.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

It is true scripture refers to sons of God in the Old and New Testaments. But the following verses use the definite article "the" and refer to the singular Son of God. Just as THE prophesied Son of God was foretold in these (and other) Old Testament verses:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Psalms 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0410 'el {ale}
shortened from 0352; TWOT - 93a; n m
AV - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1,
Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245
1) god, god-like one, mighty one

Confirmed in the New Testament:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

PDF tract of these verses with folding instructions: "Jesus" http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm#tract_m4
YouTube of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

The first verse is a Christophany where Jesus showed Himself hundreds of years before He was made manifest to the world:

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some verses from the New Testament:

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Jhn 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

And, as channeled through the false prophet:

Quran Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Brother these are all your belief.

No. Those are just some of the verses that declare the Son of God that you blaspheme to follow Muhammad.
The most important thing to believe is that the Son of God was crucified, died and was resurrected to save us from sin through faith in His shed blood. THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL - INDEED OF THE BIBLE. Just as was prophesied so many hundreds of years in advance.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AMWhat do you want me to say?
When I say beyond I mean beyond. Creator can't do the things created ones do. Kiss, sex, jump, sleep... Creator is beyond everything.
Just like, I am king of my house, I can do anything in my house.
BUT I can't drow picture on the TV screan like a baby. I am beyond that. Am I clear?

So long, I can't even think about reading it. If it is about Bible, that's not my business.

That's right because you must reject the one true God of the bible, to follow the father of lies, through his prophet Muhammad's stand-alone 23 year 7th century record that professed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

That's right. I believe in only one Allah. And Hz.Muhammed is Allah's prophet :)

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

I'm in the Eastern U.S..
Why would that strike fear into your heart? You are on the side of the murderers that are doing their best to follow Muhammad as revealed through his Quran.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:59:37 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:56:44 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:54:12 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:36:46 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 10:56:56 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AMNow, if some one tells me ......

It isn't some random someone, but God Himself that tells us.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM........ he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine.

You just contradicted yourself. You said our Creator is beyond everything we can imagine, and then you limited our Creator to what YOU can imagine, while rejecting and blaspheming the way God revealed Himself to us.

1 John 2:22  Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? HE IS ANTICHRIST, THAT DENIETH the Father and THE SON. 23 WHOSOEVER DENIETH THE SON, THE SAME HATH NOT THE FATHER: [(but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also].

It is true scripture refers to sons of God in the Old and New Testaments. But the following verses use the definite article "the" and refer to the singular Son of God. Just as THE prophesied Son of God was foretold in these (and other) Old Testament verses:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Psalms 2:7  I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou [art] my Son; this day have I begotten thee.

Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.

Immanuel
Old Testament Hebrew Definition:
0410 'el {ale}
shortened from 0352; TWOT - 93a; n m
AV - God 213, god 16, power 4, mighty 5, goodly 1, great 1, idols 1,
Immanuel + 06005 2, might 1, strong 1; 245
1) god, god-like one, mighty one

Confirmed in the New Testament:

Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

PDF tract of these verses with folding instructions: "Jesus" http://www.islamandthetruth.com/christian_testimonies.htm#tract_m4
YouTube of them:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUUXG0z0bPE

The first verse is a Christophany where Jesus showed Himself hundreds of years before He was made manifest to the world:

Daniel 3:25 He answered and said, Lo, I see four men loose, walking in the midst of the fire, and they have no hurt; and the form of the fourth is like the Son of God.

Some verses from the New Testament:

Mat 4:3 And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.

Mat 4:6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in [their] hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Mat 14:33 Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God.

Mat 26:63 But Jesus held his peace. And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.

Mat 27:40 And saying, Thou that destroyest the temple, and buildest [it] in three days, save thyself. If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross.

Mat 27:43 He trusted in God; let him deliver him now, if he will have him: for he said, I am the Son of God.

Mat 27:54 Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God.

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

Mar 3:11 And unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God.

Mar 15:39 And when the centurion, which stood over against him, saw that he so cried out, and gave up the ghost, he said, Truly this man was the Son of God.

Luk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Luk 4:3 And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.

Luk 4:9 And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence:

Luk 4:41 And devils also came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking [them] suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ.

Luk 22:70 Then said they all, Art thou then the Son of God? And he said unto them, Ye say that I am.

Jhn 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.

Jhn 1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

Jhn 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

Jhn 11:4 When Jesus heard [that], he said, This sickness is not unto death, but for the glory of God, that the Son of God might be glorified thereby.

Jhn 11:27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ, the Son of God, which should come into the world.

Jhn 19:7 The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.

Jhn 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 9:20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Rom 1:4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:

2Cr 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, [even] by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Hbr 4:14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast [our] profession.

Hbr 6:6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame.

Hbr 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 4:15 Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

1Jo 5:12 He that hath the Son hath life; [and] he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, [even] in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

Rev 2:18 And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet [are] like fine brass;

And, as channeled through the false prophet:

Quran Sura 19:88 They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son!" 89 Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous!

Brother these are all your belief.

No. Those are just some of the verses that declare the Son of God that you blaspheme to follow Muhammad.
The most important thing to believe is that the Son of God was crucified, died and was resurrected to save us from sin through faith in His shed blood. THE WHOLE SUBJECT OF THE GOSPEL - INDEED OF THE BIBLE. Just as was prophesied so many hundreds of years in advance.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/the_lamb_slain.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:23:35 AMWhat do you want me to say?
When I say beyond I mean beyond. Creator can't do the things created ones do. Kiss, sex, jump, sleep... Creator is beyond everything.
Just like, I am king of my house, I can do anything in my house.
BUT I can't drow picture on the TV screan like a baby. I am beyond that. Am I clear?

So long, I can't even think about reading it. If it is about Bible, that's not my business.

That's right because you must reject the one true God of the bible, to follow the father of lies, through his prophet Muhammad's stand-alone 23 year 7th century record that professed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

That's right. I believe in only one Allah.

The Quraish pagan's deity who curses Yahweh's people.
I believe in THE ONE TRUE GOD - YHWH
Mark 12:29 ... The Lord our God is one Lord: ... 32 ... for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:59:37 AMAnd Hz.Muhammed is Allah's prophet :)

I agree with that because what you have been shown is that the Quraish pagan's "Allah" is another name for Satan - the father of lies. The demon that met Muhammad in the cave.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:01:12 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

I'm in the Eastern U.S..
Why would that strike fear into your heart? You are on the side of the murderers that are doing their best to follow Muhammad as revealed through his Quran.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Look at the things you wrote. They are all up. Your posts are full off hate. Count how many times you wrote liar. All I say ask me about the Quran. If I know the answer I give it. If you don't want me here than I go. It's very easy to say it.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:01:12 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

I'm in the Eastern U.S..
Why would that strike fear into your heart? You are on the side of the murderers that are doing their best to follow Muhammad as revealed through his Quran.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Look at the things you wrote. They are all up. Your posts are full off hate. Count how many times you wrote liar.

It's true I do hate lies, just as I hate the father of lies.

Jhn 8:44...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I spent so much time with you because I wanted you to see who Muhammad followed.
Tell me which of the times I used the term liar was incorrect or false according to facts of the instance, and according to the one true God of the bible.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMAll I say ask me about the Quran. If I know the answer I give it. If you don't want me here than I go. It's very easy to say it.

Way back when you offered that, I told you that as a Christian I only need a single verse from the Quran to understand that Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

I've read the Quran. Have you read the Gospel? How much respect for me are you showing if you haven't even read my book - the Gospel - that even Muhammad told me to judge by?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 07, 2012, 09:22:03 AM
Bornao,

If I recall correctly you are from Turkey. Correct? Do you think you would be a muslim now if Islam had not conquered Turkey in the first century of Islam's existence? Why do you believe they were conquering in the first place?

Brother, you have no idea how many times I sad there is no got. And what I believe, (Allah knows best) saying I am muslim is not enough. I also believe saying I am Christian is not enough. You have to obey the rules of your belief. Look at your book and do what the prophets ordered to do. Circumcision, prey, baptism, don't drink alchol, no sex between single people, don't marry and divorce like you are dating ect...
(I am not saying you are doing bad things, these are my thoughts)

As a man who sad the is no God, my answer is, yes. I think I was going to be Muslim again. And brother, maybe you are interested, what I see atheists does not choosing Christianty as a religion here. Let me expain like that: When a Christian says to an unbeliever, "God has a son", it looks like a myth, like Greek Gods. You lisen to them in patient and strat counting the seconds and wait till he changes the  subject. Brother you know what, Atheist do believe in the Creator. But can't shape it. There is something deep inside telling there is something, but can't, can't, can't shape it. Even you catch a shape what you see is your imagination. Let me explain you like that. Lets say you don't believe anything and close your eyes. Go back in the time when there wasn't time. Nothing, just nothing around. Even your imagination is not there. What you find is nothing. If there is something in the very begining, you can't even call it something. It has no and and no begining. It is beyond the time and beyond everything you can imagine.
Now, if some one tells me he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine. The angels, even the prophets are not close to him.
Don't tell me having a son doesn't make God less, and he can do anything he wants, than I ask:
Can he create a rock which he can't lift?

You are missing the point of my question. You insist that offensive war is not intrinsic to Islam but the problem with this view is that the country you live in and its' history is a witness against you. Turkey was once a Christian populated nation. It was conquered by the Caliphs during the first century of Islam's existence. Why do you believe they were invading and conquering those lands?

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:01:12 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

I'm in the Eastern U.S..
Why would that strike fear into your heart? You are on the side of the murderers that are doing their best to follow Muhammad as revealed through his Quran.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Look at the things you wrote. They are all up. Your posts are full off hate.

But when I showed you the love of God at this link you just ignored it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12575#msg12575

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMCount how many times you wrote liar.

I was just being honest with you. It's true I do hate lies, just as I hate the father of lies.

Jhn 8:44...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I spent so much time with you because I wanted you to see who the evidence shows, that Muhammad followed. Tell me which of the times I used the term liar was incorrect or false, according to facts of the instance, or according to the one true God of the bible.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMAll I say ask me about the Quran. If I know the answer I give it. If you don't want me here than I go. It's very easy to say it.

Way back when you offered that, I told you that as a Christian I only needs a single verse from the Quran to understand that Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

That the Quran is the exact opposite of the Gospel is confirmed over and over throughout these pages we have labored over with you.
I've read the Quran. Have you read the Gospel? How much respect for me are you showing if you haven't even read my book - the Gospel - that even Muhammad told me to judge by?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:19:01 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:01:12 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

I'm in the Eastern U.S..
Why would that strike fear into your heart? You are on the side of the murderers that are doing their best to follow Muhammad as revealed through his Quran.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Look at the things you wrote. They are all up. Your posts are full off hate. Count how many times you wrote liar.

It's true I do hate lies, just as I hate the father of lies. I spent so much time with you because I wanted to to see who you follow.
Tell me which of the times I used the term liar was incorrect or false according to facts of the instance, and according to the one true God of the bible.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMAll I say ask me about the Quran. If I know the answer I give it. If you don't want me here than I go. It's very easy to say it.

Way back when you asked me that I told you a Christian only needs a single verse from the Quran to understand that Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

I've read the Quran. Have you read the Gospel? How much respect for me are you showing if you haven't even read my book - that Muhammad told me to judge by?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

I read the Bible. And we call it Incil by the way. And I did not asked "do you hate lies?" The words you chose shows your paradigms. You are calling me and my beliefs pagan, is that normal? Have I ever call you pagan or something like that? All I say if you have any questions about Quran you can ask to me. That's all...

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 07, 2012, 12:33:49 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 10:41:16 AM

Quote from: resistingrexmundi on March 07, 2012, 09:22:03 AM
Bornao,

If I recall correctly you are from Turkey. Correct? Do you think you would be a muslim now if Islam had not conquered Turkey in the first century of Islam's existence? Why do you believe they were conquering in the first place?

Brother, you have no idea how many times I sad there is no got. And what I believe, (Allah knows best) saying I am muslim is not enough. I also believe saying I am Christian is not enough. You have to obey the rules of your belief. Look at your book and do what the prophets ordered to do. Circumcision, prey, baptism, don't drink alchol, no sex between single people, don't marry and divorce like you are dating ect...
(I am not saying you are doing bad things, these are my thoughts)

As a man who sad the is no God, my answer is, yes. I think I was going to be Muslim again. And brother, maybe you are interested, what I see atheists does not choosing Christianty as a religion here. Let me expain like that: When a Christian says to an unbeliever, "God has a son", it looks like a myth, like Greek Gods. You lisen to them in patient and strat counting the seconds and wait till he changes the  subject. Brother you know what, Atheist do believe in the Creator. But can't shape it. There is something deep inside telling there is something, but can't, can't, can't shape it. Even you catch a shape what you see is your imagination. Let me explain you like that. Lets say you don't believe anything and close your eyes. Go back in the time when there wasn't time. Nothing, just nothing around. Even your imagination is not there. What you find is nothing. If there is something in the very begining, you can't even call it something. It has no and and no begining. It is beyond the time and beyond everything you can imagine.
Now, if some one tells me he has a son, no way man, I realy believe Creator is beyond everything we can imagine. The angels, even the prophets are not close to him.
Don't tell me having a son doesn't make God less, and he can do anything he wants, than I ask:
Can he create a rock which he can't lift?

You are missing the point of my question. You insist that offensive war is not intrinsic to Islam but the problem with this view is that the country you live in and its' history is a witness against you. Turkey was once a Christian populated nation. It was conquered by the Caliphs during the first century of Islam's existence. Why do you believe they were invading and conquering those lands?

Just the same reason that the Enghish people conquered America. Same reason Italian and so on did.
Was that your question?

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:33:59 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:01:12 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

I'm in the Eastern U.S..
Why would that strike fear into your heart? You are on the side of the murderers that are doing their best to follow Muhammad as revealed through his Quran.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Look at the things you wrote. They are all up. Your posts are full off hate.

But when I showed you the love of God at this link you just ignored it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12575#msg12575

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMCount how many times you wrote liar.

I was just being honest with you. It's true I do hate lies, just as I hate the father of lies.

Jhn 8:44...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I spent so much time with you because I wanted you to see who the evidence shows, that Muhammad followed. Tell me which of the times I used the term liar was incorrect or false, according to facts of the instance, or according to the one true God of the bible.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMAll I say ask me about the Quran. If I know the answer I give it. If you don't want me here than I go. It's very easy to say it.

Way back when you offered that, I told you that as a Christian I only needs a single verse from the Quran to understand that Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

That the Quran is the exact opposite of the Gospel is confirmed over and over throughout these pages we have labored over with you.
I've read the Quran. Have you read the Gospel? How much respect for me are you showing if you haven't even read my book - the Gospel - that even Muhammad told me to judge by?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

Brother, it's my last free minute here. (Maybe won't. It can shange.)
From now on if you have any question about Quran (Translations are not Quran, What I see is you misunderstand alot) ask it. Just put the sure and ayeth number and ask it. That's all.
Ok.
Peace

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:39:35 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:19:01 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:01:12 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

I'm in the Eastern U.S..
Why would that strike fear into your heart? You are on the side of the murderers that are doing their best to follow Muhammad as revealed through his Quran.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Look at the things you wrote. They are all up. Your posts are full off hate. Count how many times you wrote liar.

It's true I do hate lies, just as I hate the father of lies. I spent so much time with you because I wanted to to see who you follow.
Tell me which of the times I used the term liar was incorrect or false according to facts of the instance, and according to the one true God of the bible.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMAll I say ask me about the Quran. If I know the answer I give it. If you don't want me here than I go. It's very easy to say it.

Way back when you asked me that I told you a Christian only needs a single verse from the Quran to understand that Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

I've read the Quran. Have you read the Gospel? How much respect for me are you showing if you haven't even read my book - that Muhammad told me to judge by?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

I read the Bible. And we call it Incil by the way.

Injeel is a Syriac word in Muhammad's Quran that he falsely claimed was "pure Arabic". In fact Arabic is a modern language on the scene, not even having a written form until into the christian era. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1693.0

So then having read the Injeel, you fully understand that Muhammad denied the whole subject of the Injeel, 600 years after the 1st century prophets and witnesses of Jesus gave us their accounts.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:39:35 PMAnd I did not asked "do you hate lies?"

No you accused me of posting hatred, and I agree I did, but the hatred was from your books as you can see in the posts above. Here's some more:

Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Sahih Muslim B41, #6981 Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him. (repeated (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=stone+jew&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all))

That's why Hitler and the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem worked hand in hand in genocide of Jews, with 2 Islamic panzer divisions.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2983.0

The spirit of antichrist forces you to run away from the verses that express the love God expressed for us through the Gospel, like the ones that I detailed in this post:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12575#msg12575

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:39:35 PMThe words you chose shows your paradigms.

I was being honest and chose the word used in the Gospel.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

But you failed to point out which of the instances in which I used the term incorrectly or falsely.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:39:35 PMYou are calling me and my beliefs pagan, is that normal?

I don't do it without cause or reason. The Hajj and Umrah are rituals of Muhammad's tribe the Quraish, that they practiced long before Muhammad invented his religion. Circumambulation of the Kaaba and venerating it's black stone idol, and running back and forth between Safa and Marwah in pagan Arabian jinn-devil worship. The pagans continued to engage in their rituals, shoulder to shoulder with Muhammad's followers until the year before Muhammad's last Hajj, when the pagans were kicked out of their own ritual.
The occult monotheistic Sabian moon worshipers http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2475.0 that Muhammad also copied from, prostrated while praying, prayed in repetitions 5 times a day, practiced ablution, fasted for 30 days during daylight hours in the same month as Ramadan, and wore long white robes.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1227.0
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=56.0

Islam is perhaps worse than paganism because it is the ONLY specifically anti-Gospel cult. It instills in it's followers to DISbelieve the whole subject of the Gospel, DENY the Son of God and REJECT the shed blood of the Messiah that would save Muhammad's followers from sin. Islam is antichrist.
Whereas pagans, worshiping the moon or sun through their ignorance for example, may well have been saved because of their ignorance, as long as they never came to understand - and then reject - the one true God as He revealed Himself through the scriptures.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2943.0

Romans 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, [there is] no transgression.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:39:35 PMHave I ever call you pagan or something like that? All I say if you have any questions about Quran you can ask to me. That's all...

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:50:51 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:33:59 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:01:12 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:57:16 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 11:44:51 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 11:31:52 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 08:32:21 AM


Sura 8:12 I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them

Brother, you are not reading the things I write. There is no terror word there. Even the word TERROR is about 100 years old. It says FEAR. And it's talking about the unbelievers, not you.
You just want to be afraid of Islam. Than live like that.

Striking fear into someone's heart is what terrorism is.

terrorism
1. the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.
2. the state of fear and submission produced by terrorism or terrorization.
3. a terroristic method of governing or of resisting a government.

All Islam! The terrorism of Muhammad's antichrist 7th century stand-alone, imperialistic, political death cult.
Look at just a few recent examples that I copied and pasted from the top of the page at the link below:
2012.03.07 (Tal Afar, Iraq) - Twelve people near a restaurant are obliterated in a double bomb attack by Holy Warriors.
2012.03.07 (Spin Boldak, Afghanistan) - A woman and child are among four ripped apart by a bomb planted on a motorcycle.
2012.03.06 (Karabudakhkent, Dagestan) - Five traffic cops are blown to bits by a female suicide bomber.
2012.03.06 (Bilala, Nigeria) - At least two civilians are killed as Boko Haram devotees blow up a church and a police station.
2012.03.06 (Yala, Thailand) - One member of a security team for teachers dies from a shrapnel injury to the head from a Muslim 'insurgent' bomb.
2012.03.05 (Parwan, Afghanistan) - Two children bleed to death following a suicide attack that is 'in revenge' for a Quran burning.
You see, people are made to fear. Fear being a policeman, fear being in a restaurant, fear even going outside. THAT'S TERRORISM.
Instilling terror/fear in non-Muslims is the job of every TRUE FOLLOWER of Muhammad/Satan.
Please click on the link and browse the page for more of the 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks just since 9-11 that are meticulously logged there.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Now you are striking fear into my heart. What are you now?

I'm in the Eastern U.S..
Why would that strike fear into your heart? You are on the side of the murderers that are doing their best to follow Muhammad as revealed through his Quran.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Look at the things you wrote. They are all up. Your posts are full off hate.

But when I showed you the love of God at this link you just ignored it.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12575#msg12575

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMCount how many times you wrote liar.

I was just being honest with you. It's true I do hate lies, just as I hate the father of lies.

Jhn 8:44...He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

I spent so much time with you because I wanted you to see who the evidence shows, that Muhammad followed. Tell me which of the times I used the term liar was incorrect or false, according to facts of the instance, or according to the one true God of the bible.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:10:39 PMAll I say ask me about the Quran. If I know the answer I give it. If you don't want me here than I go. It's very easy to say it.

Way back when you offered that, I told you that as a Christian I only needs a single verse from the Quran to understand that Muhammad proclaimed the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel.

Surah 4:157 That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-

That the Quran is the exact opposite of the Gospel is confirmed over and over throughout these pages we have labored over with you.
I've read the Quran. Have you read the Gospel? How much respect for me are you showing if you haven't even read my book - the Gospel - that even Muhammad told me to judge by?
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

Brother, it's my last free minute here. (Maybe won't. It can shange.)
From now on if you have any question about Quran (Translations are not Quran, What I see is you misunderstand alot).....

I believe YOU misunderstand if you don't see why your fellow Muslims are engaged in terror attacks and conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims all around the world. Earlier I wrote....

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 06:44:18 AM
Sahih Al-Bukhari - "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite." page 580 of Maktba Dar-us-Salam's Sahih Al-Bukhari

You said http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12572#msg12572

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:50:51 PMHere comes the History Brother again. Muslims sad that, Bukhari sad that....

You tried to run and hide by offering abrogated drivel from Muhammad's Mecca days and excusing it away falsely as "history", but that is a footnote from the Noble Quran. Those are marching orders. It doesn't say "...He who tries to escape this duty died as a hypocrite." but "dies" in the present tense. AS IN TODAY!

So please tell us who you think would win an argument between yourself, and a true fundamental follower of Muhammad that gets Islam, and was holding a beheading knife in one hand and whose fighting non-Muslims is supported by the Quran in his other hand which is the same honest understanding of imperialistic conquest that Islamic history confirms?

The answer is obvious that it will continue to be Satan who wins all such disputes among Muhammad's followers. By advancing Islam you are subjugating your heirs to be ruled by whichever is the most violent and reprobate faction among Muhammad's followers that emerges in the future, that is the most ruthless, brutal and murderous. Whichever faction it ultimately is, will make the Taliban look like saints.

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:50:51 PM..... ask it. Just put the sure and ayeth number and ask it. That's all.
Ok.
Peace

Unless and until you can provide a compelling scriptural, historical, archaeological or geographical basis to reject the sinless Messiah and the sacrifice He made for us, to instead follow a stand-alone 7th century mass murdering (http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm), female prisoner abusing (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=coitus&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), child doing (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=aisha+nine+years&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), self-admitted terrorist (http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=terror&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), thief (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=booty&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all) through his 23 year record - that is exactly opposite the account of the Gospel, which is confirmed by the historical, archaeological, geographical and scriptural evidence - then all you would be posting in here is pure blasphemy against the one true God of the scriptures. Simply click on each characterization of Muhammad to see the truth from your own books.
But then since Mecca never existed before the 4th century AD it is pointless for you to even try to attempt such a feat.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
Injeel is a Syriac word in Muhammad's Quran that he falsely claimed was "pure Arabic". In fact Arabic is a modern language on the scene, not even having a written form until into the christian era. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1693.0

You realy don't have anyidea what does "pure Arabic" mean :D And you are givig Quran lessons to me  ;D

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Sahih Muslim B41, #6981 Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him. (repeated (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=stone+jew&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all))

That's why Hitler and the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem worked hand in hand in genocide of Jews, with 2 Islamic panzer divisions.

What are you talking about?  ;D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k56uZRlpiM4

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
The spirit of antichrist forces you to run away from the verses that express the love God expressed for us through the Gospel, like the ones that I detailed in this post:

I don't have time for that long posts. I told you. And as I told you Idon't care what you believe in.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:39:35 PMThe words you chose shows your paradigms.

I was being honest and chose the word used in the Gospel.

Don't stop than. Call the people lier and be rude.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
I don't do it without cause or reason. The Hajj and Umrah are rituals of Muhammad's tribe the Quraish, that they practiced long before Muhammad invented his religion. Circumambulation of the Kaaba and venerating it's black stone idol, and running back and forth between Safa and Marwah in pagan Arabian jinn-devil worship. The pagans continued to engage in their rituals, shoulder to shoulder with Muhammad's followers until the year before Muhammad's last Hajj, when the pagans were kicked out of their own ritual.
The occult monotheistic Sabian moon worshipers that Muhammad also copied from, prostrated while praying, prayed in repetitions 5 times a day, practiced ablution, fasted for 30 days during daylight hours in the same month as Ramadan, and wore long white robes.

Maybe you are rong ;D

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
Islam is perhaps worse than paganism because it is the ONLY specifically anti-Gospel cult. It instills in it's followers to DISbelieve the whole subject of the Gospel, DENY the Son of God and REJECT the shed blood of the Messiah that would save Muhammad's followers from sin. Islam is antichrist.
Whereas pagans, worshiping the moon or sun through their ignorance for example, may well have been saved because of their ignorance, as long as they never came to understand - and then reject - the one true God as He revealed Himself through the scriptures.

I don't care what you believe in. How can I be more clear.  ::)

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
I believe YOU misunderstand if you don't see why your fellow Muslims are engaged in terror attacks and conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims all around the world. Earlier I wrote....

Sahih Al-Bukhari - "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite." page 580 of Maktba Dar-us-Salam's Sahih Al-Bukhari

Brother, you don't even know what the word Jihad means. In your dictionaries it says in Cambride dictionary: a holy war which is fought by Muslims against people who are a threat to the Islamic religion or who oppose its teachings.
This is what you know. And you know what, that not right.

Here is our dictionary says: http://www.sozluk.net/index.php?word=cihad
Check the link. But those words to you dictionary and tell me what "İlim ve imanla, sözle, fiile" means. What you will find is ilim=science iman=belief Fiil=act.
Let me go faster. Chihad means: Fighting agains devil. Not against people. Prayin is a chihad. Teaching, feeding poor is chihad. Even smiling chihad.


78.    And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the religion of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular prayer, give Zakat, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help!

78.    Ve cahidu fillahi hakka cihadil hüvectebüküm ve ma ceale aleyküm fid dıni min harac millete ebıküm ibrahım hüve semmakümül müslimıne min kablü ve fı haza lı yekuner rasulü ÅŸehıden aleyküm ve ketunu şühedae alen nas fe ekıymüs salate ve atüz zekate va'tesımu billah hüve mevlaküm fe nı'mel mevla ve nı'men nesıyr

But, what you want to see is misguided people. You still give me numbers of death people. Even that number is not enough for the Afkan civil people only. You are still doing that.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
You tried to run and hide by offering abrogated drivel from Muhammad's Mecca days and excusing it away falsely as "history", but that is a footnote from the Noble Quran. Those are marching orders. It doesn't say "...He who tries to escape this duty died as a hypocrite." but "dies" in the present tense. AS IN TODAY!

Run what? I gave answer to that. If the those books hasn't been changed, Quran hasn't been send to all people. And If you don't have a physical evidence that Mecca has been existed in the old days, so what? Quran dose not say there was city at the times of Hz.Abraham. And Quran also points that. And as a prophet of Allah Hz.Abraham has showen miracles and If you askme like, "Hey! Muslim! Can Hz.Abaham make a journey in desert like that" Then I say, "If the fire of Nemruth did not burned him, Yes, he can, without a doubt.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
So please tell us who you think would win an argument between yourself, and a true fundamental follower of Muhammad that gets Islam, and was holding a beheading knife in one hand and whose fighting non-Muslims is supported by the Quran in his other hand which is the same honest understanding of imperialistic conquest that Islamic history confirms?

The answer is obvious that it will continue to be Satan who wins all such disputes among Muhammad's followers. By advancing Islam you are subjugating your heirs to be ruled by whichever is the most violent and reprobate faction among Muhammad's followers that emerges in the future, that is the most ruthless, brutal and murderous. Whichever faction it ultimately is, will make the Taliban look like saints.

[/quote]

I didn't understand the question here. Ask it in a simple way.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:50:51 PM..... ask it. Just put the sure and ayeth number and ask it. That's all.
Ok.
Peace

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
Unless and until you can provide a compelling scriptural, historical, archaeological or geographical basis to reject the sinless Messiah and the sacrifice He made for us, to instead follow a stand-alone 7th century mass murdering (http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm), female prisoner abusing (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=coitus&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), child doing (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=aisha+nine+years&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), self-admitted terrorist (http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=terror&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), thief (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=booty&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all) through his 23 year record - that is exactly opposite the account of the Gospel, which is confirmed by the historical, archaeological, geographical and scriptural evidence - then all you would be posting in here is pure blasphemy against the one true God of the scriptures. Simply click on each characterization of Muhammad to see the truth from your own books.
But then since Mecca never existed before the 4th century AD it is pointless for you to even try to attempt such a feat.

What kind of a sentence is this? Are trying to break the record longest sentence? ;D
I don't know if I get it wright, but I think you are trying to say you have some "historical, archaeological, geographical and scriptural evidence" of something. If you believe on what you have, go on believing them. Don't ask me about them.
If it's about what Quran says about there parts of Allah it says this

This is also a proof that I am not hiding something.

4/163.    We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.


4/171.    O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Three (Trinity)" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is One God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

5/46.    And in their footsteps We sent Jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Torah that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Torah that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah.

5/78.    Curses were pronounced on those among the Children of Israel who rejected Faith, by the tongue of David and of Jesus the son of Mary: because they disobeyed and persisted in excesses.

5/110.    Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favor to thee and to thy mother. Behold! I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou didst speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. Behold! I taught thee the Book and Wisdom, the Torah and the Gospel. And behold! thou makest out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. And behold! thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. And behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) thee when thou didst show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'

5/112.    Behold! the Disciples, said: "O Jesus the son of Mary! can thy Lord send down to us a Table set (with viands) from heaven?" Said Jesus: "Fear Allah, if ye have faith!"

5/113.    They said: "We only wish to eat thereof and satisfy our hearts, and to know that thou hast indeed told us the truth; and that we ourselves may be witnesses to the miracle."
   
5/114.    Said Jesus the son of Mary: "O Allah our Lord! Send us from heaven a Table set (with viands), that there may be for us - for the first and the last of us - a solemn festival and a sign from Thee; and provide for our sustenance, for Thou art the best Sustainer (of our needs)."

5/115.    Allah said: "I will send it down unto you: But if any of you after that resisteth faith, I will punish him with a penalty such as I have not inflicted on any one among all the peoples."

5/16.    And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

5/117.    "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

5/118.    "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."

6/5.    And Zakariya and John, and Jesus and Elias: all in the ranks of the Righteous:

6/6.    And Ismail and Elisha, and Jonah, and Lot: and to all We gave favor above the nations:

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 01:16:50 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
Injeel is a Syriac word in Muhammad's Quran that he falsely claimed was "pure Arabic". In fact Arabic is a modern language on the scene, not even having a written form until into the christian era. http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1693.0

You realy don't have anyidea what does "pure Arabic" mean :D And you are givig Quran lessons to me  ;D

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
Sahih Bukhari B52 #177 Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "the Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Sahih Muslim B41, #6981 Ibn 'Umar reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: You will fight against the jews and you will kill them until even a stone would say: Come here, Muslim, there is a Jew (hiding himself behind me) ; kill him. (repeated (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=stone+jew&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all))

That's why Hitler and the Islamic Mufti of Jerusalem worked hand in hand in genocide of Jews, with 2 Islamic panzer divisions.

What are you talking about?  ;D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k56uZRlpiM4

This video explains it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8sk3fKY9PhY
Perhaps if I illustrate it:

(http://www.petewaldo.com/0fdbcd20.jpg)

                +

(http://www.petewaldo.com/0ffbcfe0.jpg)

Hadith: Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say: oh servant of Allah, oh Muslim, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!

                =

(http://bokertov.typepad.com/btb/images/holocaust_mass_grave_belsen.jpg)

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 01:16:50 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
The spirit of antichrist forces you to run away from the verses that express the love God expressed for us through the Gospel, like the ones that I detailed in this post:

I don't have time for that long posts. I told you. And as I told you Idon't care what you believe in.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:39:35 PMThe words you chose shows your paradigms.

I was being honest and chose the word used in the Gospel.

Don't stop than. Call the people lier and be rude.

What would you have me call them? An untruth teller?
I already whitewash Muhammad and his followers rape of prisoners (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=coitus&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all) by calling it abuse. (click on the link)

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 01:16:50 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
I don't do it without cause or reason. The Hajj and Umrah are rituals of Muhammad's tribe the Quraish, that they practiced long before Muhammad invented his religion. Circumambulation of the Kaaba and venerating it's black stone idol, and running back and forth between Safa and Marwah in pagan Arabian jinn-devil worship. The pagans continued to engage in their rituals, shoulder to shoulder with Muhammad's followers until the year before Muhammad's last Hajj, when the pagans were kicked out of their own ritual.
The occult monotheistic Sabian moon worshipers that Muhammad also copied from, prostrated while praying, prayed in repetitions 5 times a day, practiced ablution, fasted for 30 days during daylight hours in the same month as Ramadan, and wore long white robes.

Maybe you are rong ;D

Do you mean you didn't even know that Hajj and Umrah are nothing more than thinly repackaged Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals?

Narrated 'Asim: I asked Anas bin Malik: "Did you use to dislike to perform Tawaf between Safa and Marwa?" He said, "Yes, as it was of the ceremonies of the days of the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance, till Allah revealed: 'Verily! (The two mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwa are among the symbols of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who performs the pilgrimage to the Ka'ba, or performs 'Umra, to perform Tawaf between them.' " (2.158) (Sahih al-Bukhari 2 Book 26 710)

Muhammad's followers engage in those pagan rituals simply because Muhammad told his followers to engage in them. His effort was to try to be inclusive of the pagans to sell his cult to them.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 01:16:50 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 12:54:19 PM
Islam is perhaps worse than paganism because it is the ONLY specifically anti-Gospel cult. It instills in it's followers to DISbelieve the whole subject of the Gospel, DENY the Son of God and REJECT the shed blood of the Messiah that would save Muhammad's followers from sin. Islam is antichrist.
Whereas pagans, worshiping the moon or sun through their ignorance for example, may well have been saved because of their ignorance, as long as they never came to understand - and then reject - the one true God as He revealed Himself through the scriptures.

I don't care what you believe in. How can I be more clear.  ::)

That's right. You can't care about anything but Muhammad in order to follow Muhammad. You have to void your mind of scripture, history, archaeology and geography until you clean your mind to the level of a 7th century desert dwelling illiterate.
I simply explained to you why it is I used the term pagan.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 02:33:33 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
I believe YOU misunderstand if you don't see why your fellow Muslims are engaged in terror attacks and conquest and subjugation of non-Muslims all around the world. Earlier I wrote....

Sahih Al-Bukhari - "Jihad is holy fighting in Allah’s Cause with full force of weaponry. It is given the utmost importance in Islam and is one of its Pillars. By Jihad Islam is established, Allah is made superior and He becomes the only God who may be worshiped. By Jihad Islam is propagated and made superior. By abandoning Jihad (may Allah protect us from that) Islam is destroyed and Muslims fall into an inferior position. Their honor is lost, their lands are stolen, and Muslim rule and authority vanish. Jihad is an obligatory duty in Islam on every Muslim. He who tries to escape this duty dies as a hypocrite." page 580 of Maktba Dar-us-Salam's Sahih Al-Bukhari

Brother, you don't even know what the word Jihad means. In your dictionaries it says in Cambride dictionary: a holy war which is fought by Muslims against people who are a threat to the Islamic religion or who oppose its teachings.
This is what you know. And you know what, that not right.

Here is our dictionary says: http://www.sozluk.net/index.php?word=cihad
Check the link. But those words to you dictionary and tell me what "İlim ve imanla, sözle, fiile" means. What you will find is ilim=science iman=belief Fiil=act.
Let me go faster. Chihad means: Fighting agains devil. Not against people.

Then please explain to us what the Islamic First Jihad was doing engaging in imperialistic conquest all the way up to France and Austria.
Perhaps Muhammad's followers had to travel all the way up into France and Austria to fight the devil, and all those innocent people just happened to get in the way?

Oh wait, I forgot. No non-Muslim is innocent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fliG1doz240

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 02:33:33 AMPrayin is a chihad. Teaching, feeding poor is chihad. Even smiling chihad.

78.    And strive in His cause as ye ought to strive, (with sincerity and under discipline). He has chosen you, and has imposed no difficulties on you in religion; it is the religion of your father Abraham. It is He Who has named you Muslims, both before and in this (Revelation); that the Messenger may be a witness for you, and ye be witnesses for mankind! So establish regular prayer, give Zakat, and hold fast to Allah. He is your Protector - the Best to protect and the Best to help!

78.    Ve cahidu fillahi hakka cihadil hüvectebüküm ve ma ceale aleyküm fid dıni min harac millete ebıküm ibrahım hüve semmakümül müslimıne min kablü ve fı haza lı yekuner rasulü ÅŸehıden aleyküm ve ketunu şühedae alen nas fe ekıymüs salate ve atüz zekate va'tesımu billah hüve mevlaküm fe nı'mel mevla ve nı'men nesıyr

But, what you want to see is misguided people.

But that's the whole point. Are you going to walk up to a true follower of Muhammad that is about to behead an innocent non-Muslim and tell him he is misguided? NO. If he commands you to pick up the other beheading knife, and behead another innocent non-Muslim or he will behead you, you are going to comply. Satan is in control of the true fundamental Muslims through the spirit of antichrist. You just haven't been compelled to get there yet.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 02:33:33 AMYou still give me numbers of death people. Even that number is not enough for the Afkan civil people only. You are still doing that.

Arab Muslims killed or displaced 2 million innocent people in the Sudan alone. The new Muslim government killed another thousand Christians on the Ivory Coast of Africa. Church bombings and burnings all around the world.

(http://www.petewaldo.com/0f2587a0.jpg)

How do you explain over 18,000 deadly Islamic terror attacks around the world just since 9-11?
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 02:33:33 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
You tried to run and hide by offering abrogated drivel from Muhammad's Mecca days and excusing it away falsely as "history", but that is a footnote from the Noble Quran. Those are marching orders. It doesn't say "...He who tries to escape this duty died as a hypocrite." but "dies" in the present tense. AS IN TODAY!

Run what? I gave answer to that. If the those books hasn't been changed, Quran hasn't been send to all people. And If you don't have a physical evidence that Mecca has been existed in the old days, so what?

That means that all the lies you have been taught, that were created in the 7th to 10th century AD, about Abraham, Hagar or Ishmael ever having been within a thousand kilometers of where Mecca was eventually built, is a lie.
That is further shown to be a lie because scripture, history, archaeology and geography tell us that Abraham was never within a thousand kilometers of where Mecca was eventually built in the 4th century.

They probably prevented you from learning how to read a map in the madrass, but if you somehow learned on your own, here is where the scriptural, archaeological and geographical records tell us Abraham's travels actually took him.

(http://www.petewaldo.com/04f4e680.gif)

Islamic so-called "tradition" is nothing but FICTION CREATED in the 7th to 10th centuries by a bunch of semi-literate SW Arabian desert dwellers, that masquerades as history, yet was written thousands of years after Abraham.
All lies. Pure poppycock - from Abraham to Zamzam.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2026.0
What could be more ignorant than throwing stones at the devil - a spiritual force? What we actually see is Satan lulling his victims into actually believing they are gaining protection from himself, even as they are engaging in pagan Arabian moon, sun, star and jinn-devil worship rituals centered around the Quraish pagan's black stone idol and pagan kaaba they built to house their idols.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 02:33:33 AMQuran dose not say there was city at the times of Hz.Abraham. And Quran also points that. And as a prophet of Allah Hz.Abraham has showen miracles and If you askme like, "Hey! Muslim! Can Hz.Abaham make a journey in desert like that" Then I say, "If the fire of Nemruth did not burned him, Yes, he can, without a doubt.

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
So please tell us who you think would win an argument between yourself, and a true fundamental follower of Muhammad that gets Islam, and was holding a beheading knife in one hand and whose fighting non-Muslims is supported by the Quran in his other hand which is the same honest understanding of imperialistic conquest that Islamic history confirms?

The answer is obvious that it will continue to be Satan who wins all such disputes among Muhammad's followers. By advancing Islam you are subjugating your heirs to be ruled by whichever is the most violent and reprobate faction among Muhammad's followers that emerges in the future, that is the most ruthless, brutal and murderous. Whichever faction it ultimately is, will make the Taliban look like saints.

I didn't understand the question here. Ask it in a simple way.

Who would win an argument? You trying to advance the lie that pretends Islam is a religion of peace?
Or a true follower of Muhammad that disagrees with you and holds a beheading knife in one hand, and is supported by his Quran and a 1400 year history of Islamic imperialistic conquest and slaughter in the other.

By following Muhammad you are condemning your future heirs to being ruled over by the likes of the Taliban, or whichever more evil Islamic faction comes along to take their place. Ultimately the most evil and murderous faction must necessarily win, because Satan is in control of antichrist Islam and has been for 1400 years.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 02:33:33 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM

Quote from: Bornao on March 07, 2012, 12:50:51 PM..... ask it. Just put the sure and ayeth number and ask it. That's all.
Ok.
Peace

Quote from: Peter on March 07, 2012, 01:09:13 PM
Unless and until you can provide a compelling scriptural, historical, archaeological or geographical basis to reject the sinless Messiah and the sacrifice He made for us, to instead follow a stand-alone 7th century mass murdering (http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm), female prisoner abusing (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=coitus&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), child doing (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=aisha+nine+years&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), self-admitted terrorist (http://www.searchtruth.com/search.php?keyword=terror&chapter=&translator=2&search=1&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all), thief (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=booty&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all) through his 23 year record - that is exactly opposite the account of the Gospel, which is confirmed by the historical, archaeological, geographical and scriptural evidence - then all you would be posting in here is pure blasphemy against the one true God of the scriptures. Simply click on each characterization of Muhammad to see the truth from your own books.
But then since Mecca never existed before the 4th century AD it is pointless for you to even try to attempt such a feat.

What kind of a sentence is this? Are trying to break the record longest sentence? ;D
I don't know if I get it wright, but I think you are trying to say you have some "historical, archaeological, geographical and scriptural evidence" of something. If you believe on what you have, go on believing them. Don't ask me about them.
If it's about what Quran says about there parts of Allah it says this

Since the Quran was inspired by the father of lies - Satan - and is the exact opposite of the whole subject of the Gospel, you are going to need to PROVIDE EVIDENCE OF IT'S HISTORICITY before you squander any more forum space by posting any more 7th century Muhammadan created fiction in here.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 02:33:33 AM
This is also a proof that I am not hiding something.

4/163.    We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Noah and the Messengers after him: we sent inspiration to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob and the Tribes, to Jesus, Job, Jonah, Aaron, and Solomon, and to David We gave the Psalms.

MOSES was inspired to write about Noah. Muhammad is a liar.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 02:33:33 AM4/171.    O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a Spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Three (Trinity)" ......

But you already admitted to believing in 2 parts of the "trinity" way back in the post at this link:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12435#msg12435

When you admitted:

Quote from: Bornao on February 29, 2012, 12:24:57 PMAnd my answer no, Creator has THE spirit, not has A spirit.

God's Spirit is one of the 3 parts, of what is sometimes called the "trinity".
So does God have the Spirit or is Muhammad spreading falsehood?

Now Hitler is Muslim? Rihgt ;D
That man with white hat is the representative of Allah? Go a head.
Put some ones sayings instead of Quran, go a head.
Want me to put the pictures of the people who was killed by Juwes, no I won't do that.
Want me to put the pictures of Christians killed Muslims, no I woun't do that. I even sorry for giving the link Christians killde Muslims and eated their flesh. You know what I call you? I will call you Brother.

You realy don't know what hac is. You think we worship other than Allah.  ;D You just want to ignore the truth.
Look up, has I sad anything bad about your belief? What ever you say, what ever you do? My fear for you is; quit believing your Creator.
Hate Muslims, I don't care.
Hate me, I don't care.
Trust your history view of Christianty and mould Muslims, I don't care.
You thing we worship Kabe or something like that, I don't care.
These are between you and your Creator. If Creator wants to answer you, that's his business. Not mine.
And you know what we all going to see the truth in the future. Death is not that far. And here is what Hz.Jesus(PBH) says...

17.    They disbelieved indeed those that say that Allah is Christ the son of Mary. Say: "Who then hath the least power against Allah, if His will were to destroy Christ the son of Mary, his mother, and every one that is on the earth? For to Allah belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth, and all that is between. He createth what He pleaseth. For Allah hath power over all things."

116.    And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah.?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

117.    "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when Thou didst take me up Thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things.

118.    "If Thou dost punish them, they are Thy servant: If Thou dost forgive them, Thou art the Exalted in power, the Wise."

9/31.    They take their priests and their anchorites to be their lords beside Allah, and (they take as their Lord) Christ the son of Mary; yet they were commanded to worship but One God. there is no god but He. Praise and glory to Him: (Far is He) from having the partners they associate (with Him).

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:07:04 AM
Who would win an argument? You trying to advance the bull that pretends Islam is a religion of peace?

Yes, I would win an argument. Because which you still couldn't understand. Islam is religion of peace and what you have is Christianty view side of history Why can't you understand only your view side of the history. Are you reading what I wrote. Let me check. Muhammed Ali is the best singer in the world.  And I don't need any historical evidence for Quran is as word of Rahman.
Tell me brother are montains move?

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:07:04 AM
But you already admitted to believing in 2 parts of the "trinity" way back in the post at this link:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12435#msg12435

Did I? Look down

Quote from: Bornao on March 01, 2012, 02:15:57 AM
It’s nice to have an agreement, but we couldn’t have. Creator is much more complex than we can ever imagine. Let's say we are talking about the sun. In the middle of the daytime it’s everywhere. It’s THE light of the sun. Light is not a thing, and you can’t count, and it is not a part of the sun. Even we can say it’s a part of the sun, we can’t say the parts of the sun is sun and the sunlight. I mean, we can’t say sun= sun+sunlight. And we are talkin about the Creator which is not a thing, which has no atoms, no protons etc… It’s is everwhere and it’s surrounds every created ones. I mean we can’t even say Creator is one. In Quran Surah Ihlas 112/1,  it says, “Kul huvallahu ehad. Not, “Kul huvallahu vahd.”  Vahd means, one. Ehad word does not have an exact meaning in English, but the closer meaning is, one and only. I can see you are a clever person and I am sure you can understand what I mean when you think about it. Sorry for writing to much.  :) Sometimes my fingers dosen't know where to stop.

And my answer to your question is, yes, I am familiar with the passage.

Please go on...

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:14:15 AM
Now Hitler is Muslim? Rihgt ;D

No Hitler followed Satan. He was even a fan of Madame Blavatsky, the famous 19th century Satanist.
It is Satan that inspired Hitler to genocide of God's people - the Jews.
Just as it was Satan that inspired Muhammad to genocide of Jews.
http://www.petewaldo.com/banu_qurayza_massacre.htm

Tabari VIII:38 "The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims."

Tabari VIII:35/Ishaq:464 "The Jews were made to come down, and Allah's Messenger imprisoned them. Then the Prophet went out into the marketplace of Medina (it is still its marketplace today), and he had trenches dug in it. He sent for the Jewish men and had them beheaded in those trenches. They were brought out to him in batches. They numbered 800 to 900 boys and men."

Qur'an 33:26 "Allah took down the People of the Scripture Book. He cast terror into their hearts. Some you slew, and some you made prisoners. And He made you heirs of their lands, their houses, and their goods, giving you a land which you had not traversed before. And Allah has power over all things."

Don't give me any more nonsense that those innocent, faithful, peaceful Jewish farm boys had it coming to them, until you show me from the Quran or Hadith where you get that from. The Banu Qurayza were not the betrayers, but were the betrayed.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2081.0

That's why Nazism and Islam were such a good fit and the partnership was born.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:14:15 AM
That man with white hat is the representative of Allah? Go a head.
Put some ones sayings instead of Quran, go a head.
Want me to put the pictures of the people who was killed by Juwes, no I won't do that.
Want me to put the pictures of Christians killed Muslims, no I woun't do that.

You are working double time for the father of lies. The diversion won't work. I SHOWED YOU over and over where THE QURAN AND HADITH call Muhammad's followers to fight and slay.
For heaven's sake read it in your own books. The term fight is used 287 times in Bukhari alone. Click here. (http://www.searchtruth.com/searchHadith.php?keyword=fight&translator=1&search=1&book=&start=0&records_display=10&search_word=all)
It is a lie to suggest that those verses describe a spiritual struggle and anyone who believe they do is a liar.
http://www.petewaldo.com/jihad.htm

Even the Arabian pagans were decent enough not to fight around all of their pagan Kaabas throughout Arabia, but Muhammad couldn't even keep that rule, and gave himself another "revelation" from his "alter ego" "Allah" to excuse it away.

http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=3&translator=1&start=0&number=104#104
If anybody argues that fighting is allowed in Mecca as Allah's Apostle did fight (in Mecca), tell him that Allah gave permission to His Apostle, but He did not give it to you. (Book #3, Hadith #104)

I asked you repeatedly to show me where THE GOSPEL CALLS Christians are called to kill Jews, Muslims AND CHRISTIANS, as the Roman Church did.
You claimed you read the Gospel. I am not going to let you off the hook until you answer this rather than try to blow another smokescreen up over the rape, pillage and plunder of Islamic imperialistic conquest.
WHERE DOES THE GOSPEL CALL CHRISTIANS TO FIGHT NON-CHRISTIANS?

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:29:46 AM
Yes, I would win an argument. Because which you still couldn't understand. Islam is religion of peace and what you have is Christianty view side of history Why can't you understand only your view side of the history. Are you reading what I wrote. Let me check. Muhammed Ali is the best singer in the world.  And I don't need any historical evidence for Quran is as word of Rahman.
Tell me brother are montains move?

You are not reading the thing I write. That's over.
Peace

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:53:03 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:47:15 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:29:46 AM
Yes, I would win an argument. Because which you still couldn't understand. Islam is religion of peace and what you have is Christianty view side of history Why can't you understand only your view side of the history.

Because all of the hatred, fighting and evil I quoted COMES FROM YOUR BOOKS.
Yet you couldn't cite a single instance where the Gospel incites Christians to do the same.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:47:15 AMAre you reading what I wrote. Let me check. Muhammed Ali is the best singer in the world.  And I don't need any historical evidence for Quran is as word of Rahman.
Tell me brother are montains move?

You are not reading the thing I write. That's over.
Peace

What is that supposed to mean?

Are you having fun with me?

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:54:41 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:53:03 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:47:15 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:29:46 AM
Yes, I would win an argument. Because which you still couldn't understand. Islam is religion of peace and what you have is Christianty view side of history Why can't you understand only your view side of the history.

Because all of the hatred, fighting and evil I quoted COMES FROM YOUR BOOKS.
Yet you couldn't cite a single instance where the Gospel incites Christians to do the same.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:47:15 AMAre you reading what I wrote. Let me check. Muhammed Ali is the best singer in the world.  And I don't need any historical evidence for Quran is as word of Rahman.
Tell me brother are montains move?

You are not reading the thing I write. That's over.
Peace

What is that supposed to mean?

It means what it says. All that evil, hatred, fighting and genocide I cited COMES FROM YOUR BOOKS, not some "Christianty view side".

Now please show us where the Gospel calls Christians to fight and slay, the way the Quran demands of Muhammad's followers - just as his true followers, the terrorists, obey.

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:57:02 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:54:41 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:53:03 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:47:15 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:29:46 AM
Yes, I would win an argument. Because which you still couldn't understand. Islam is religion of peace and what you have is Christianty view side of history Why can't you understand only your view side of the history.

Because all of the hatred, fighting and evil I quoted COMES FROM YOUR BOOKS.
Yet you couldn't cite a single instance where the Gospel incites Christians to do the same.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:47:15 AMAre you reading what I wrote. Let me check. Muhammed Ali is the best singer in the world.  And I don't need any historical evidence for Quran is as word of Rahman.
Tell me brother are montains move?

You are not reading the thing I write. That's over.
Peace

What is that supposed to mean?

It means what it says. All that evil, hatred, fighting and genocide COMES FROM YOUR BOOKS, not some "Christianty view side".

You know what I am talking about. This is not nice.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:56:53 AM
Are you having fun with me?

You may think it's funny today, but what does scripture say about the false prophet Muhammad and his Islamic kingdom "beast"?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:58:41 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:57:02 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:54:41 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:53:03 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:47:15 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:29:46 AM
Yes, I would win an argument. Because which you still couldn't understand. Islam is religion of peace and what you have is Christianty view side of history Why can't you understand only your view side of the history.

Because all of the hatred, fighting and evil I quoted COMES FROM YOUR BOOKS.
Yet you couldn't cite a single instance where the Gospel incites Christians to do the same.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:47:15 AMAre you reading what I wrote. Let me check. Muhammed Ali is the best singer in the world.  And I don't need any historical evidence for Quran is as word of Rahman.
Tell me brother are montains move?

You are not reading the thing I write. That's over.
Peace

What is that supposed to mean?

It means what it says. All that evil, hatred, fighting and genocide COMES FROM YOUR BOOKS, not some "Christianty view side".

You know what I am talking about. This is not nice.

I agree. Calls to genocide and following a 7th century mass murdering megalomaniac are not nice. So why don't you repent and leave those satanic books behind?

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:02:40 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:56:53 AM
Are you having fun with me?

You may think it's funny today, but what does scripture say about the false prophet Muhammad and his Islamic kingdom "beast"?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You will erase the things I wrote don't you. You are not even reading what I write.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:34:34 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 06:07:04 AM
But you already admitted to believing in 2 parts of the "trinity" way back in the post at this link:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12435#msg12435

Did I? Look down

Quote from: Bornao on March 01, 2012, 02:15:57 AM
It’s nice to have an agreement, but we couldn’t have. Creator is much more complex than we can ever imagine. Let's say we are talking about the sun. In the middle of the daytime it’s everywhere. It’s THE light of the sun. Light is not a thing, and you can’t count, and it is not a part of the sun. Even we can say it’s a part of the sun, we can’t say the parts of the sun is sun and the sunlight. I mean, we can’t say sun= sun+sunlight. And we are talkin about the Creator which is not a thing, which has no atoms, no protons etc… It’s is everwhere and it’s surrounds every created ones. I mean we can’t even say Creator is one. In Quran Surah Ihlas 112/1,  it says, “Kul huvallahu ehad. Not, “Kul huvallahu vahd.”  Vahd means, one. Ehad word does not have an exact meaning in English, but the closer meaning is, one and only. I can see you are a clever person and I am sure you can understand what I mean when you think about it. Sorry for writing to much.  :) Sometimes my fingers dosen't know where to stop.

And my answer to your question is, yes, I am familiar with the passage.

Please go on...

The sun is a good example. You already believe in God and His Spirit - two parts of the trinity.
Now think of God as the sun, and the radiation it produces as the Holy Spirit, and the light from the sun as our Savior. Scripture even refers to Him as the light.

John 1:1  In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.   2  The same was in the beginning with God.    3  All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.    4  In him was life; and the life was the light of men.   5  And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
http://www.islamandthetruth.com/gospel_of_john.htm

That doesn't mean there are 3 different suns, but rather the ONE sun manifest in 3 different ways.

14  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

John 10:30 I and [my] Father are one. 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

The "one" in that sentence is neuter gender meaning of one essence. One and the same. That's why the Jews wanted to kill Jesus - for blasphemy.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:09:59 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:02:40 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:56:53 AM
Are you having fun with me?

You may think it's funny today, but what does scripture say about the false prophet Muhammad and his Islamic kingdom "beast"?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You will erase the things I wrote don't you. You are not even reading what I write.

You are not even answering this...

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:16:23 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:09:59 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:02:40 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:56:53 AM
Are you having fun with me?

You may think it's funny today, but what does scripture say about the false prophet Muhammad and his Islamic kingdom "beast"?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You will erase the things I wrote don't you. You are not even reading what I write.

You are not even answering this...

I was in the process when you repeated it. I don't erase things in the forum as all of these chats are very instructive for Muslims that arrive here that are actually seeking truth. They will be able to learn from your running and hiding and obfuscating that you haven't succeeded in defending what you believe yet. We have had people come in here that kept ignoring replies to them, while copy and pasting and posting new material instead. When they persisted I put their posts in storage, until such time as they answered to the posts they had been ignoring. Please read forum decorum.

It is you that has been ignoring my posts, and ignoring the verses I have shown you from your own books.

It is you that ignored me when I asked you repeatedly to please show us where the Gospel calls Christians to fight and slay non-Christians.

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

If you can't show us where in the Gospel Christians are called to fight and slay then, once again, we find Muhammad to be a liar.
Though certainly not as big as his lie that Jesus wasn't crucified - denying the whole subject of the Gospel - because of his wife Khadijah's cousin Waraqa's occult gnosticism http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=2749.0

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:18:37 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:16:23 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:09:59 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:02:40 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:56:53 AM
Are you having fun with me?

You may think it's funny today, but what does scripture say about the false prophet Muhammad and his Islamic kingdom "beast"?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You will erase the things I wrote don't you. You are not even reading what I write.

You are not even answering this...

I was in the process when you repeated it. I don't erase things in the forum. We have had people come in here and keep ignoring my replies and posting new material instead. If they persist I put their posts in storage until they answer to the posts they are ignoring. Please read forum decorum. You are not even reading what I write.

It is you that has been ignoring my posts, and ignoring the verses I have shown you from your own books.

I asked you repeatedly to please show us where the Gospel calls Christians to fight and slay non-Christians.

See, you are not readin what I wrote. I answerd tham all. I said hadises and the people are not the representative of Allah. And why I don't point things in Bible is, even the Bible has been changed there can be some words of Allah in it. And that is not nice. At the times of Bible those things can be needed to told by Allah. Even if it look something bad for our times, (now a days) in the years of 0 (Zero) they can be normal to talk.
Let me tell you this way. We bouth believe Adam an Eve are the firts people. And their childeren married. Now we are talking about incest. Can we say "No way! These are lies and throw all that books!" No we can't.
Am I clear. (Did you get why I don't talk about the Bible) Hz.Muhammed never allowed people to do someting wrong to Bibles and Tevrats. Ok.
For us, it was Allah who send all the books. Tevrat, old, new Testement, Quran and which we don't know the names of them.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:44:42 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:18:37 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:16:23 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:09:59 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:02:40 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:56:53 AM
Are you having fun with me?

You may think it's funny today, but what does scripture say about the false prophet Muhammad and his Islamic kingdom "beast"?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You will erase the things I wrote don't you. You are not even reading what I write.

You are not even answering this...

I was in the process when you repeated it. I don't erase things in the forum. We have had people come in here and keep ignoring my replies and posting new material instead. If they persist I put their posts in storage until they answer to the posts they are ignoring. Please read forum decorum. You are not even reading what I write.

It is you that has been ignoring my posts, and ignoring the verses I have shown you from your own books.

I asked you repeatedly to please show us where the Gospel calls Christians to fight and slay non-Christians.

See, you are not readin what I wrote. I answerd tham all. I said hadises and the people are not the representative of Allah. And why I don't point things in Bible is, even the Bible has been changed there can be some words of Allah in it.

You don't realize this but what you are saying is that you wish that God wasn't a God of love as revealed in the Gospel as I showed you in this prior post:
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=3098.msg12575#msg12575

But that you instead wish that Muhammad hadn't lied in the following verse....

Sura 9.111 Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah. then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

..... so that the sinless Messiah, the Prince of Peace, the Lamb of God and His true followers, would be revealed as being as evil as the false prophet Muhammad was through his mass murder, imperialistic conquest, child doing, female prisoner abuse, terrorism and thievery, as continued by his true followers.
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?board=51.0

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:44:42 AMAnd that is not nice. At the times of Bible those things can be needed to told by Allah. Even if it look something bad for our times, (now a days) in the years of 0 (Zero) they can be normal to talk.
Let me tell you this way. We bouth believe Adam an Eve are the firts people. And their childeren married. Now we are talking about incest.

And God allowed for it at the beginnings of mankind, thousands of years ago, to get our species going. However:

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.0
"This practice, which has been prohibited in the Judeo-Christian tradition since the days of Moses, was sanctioned by Muhammad and has been going on now for 50 generations (1,400 years) in the Muslim world.

This practice of inbreeding will never go away in the Muslim world since Muhammad is the ultimate example and authority on all matters, including marriage."

Sura 33.50 "O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God, has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts..."

"The massive inbreeding in Muslim culture may well have done virtually irreversible damage to the Muslim gene pool, including extensive damage to its intelligence, sanity, and health.

According to Sennels, close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred. In Pakistan, the numbers approach 70%. Even in England, more than half of Pakistani immigrants are married to their first cousins, and in Denmark the number of inbred Pakistani immigrants is around 40%.

The numbers are equally devastating in other important Muslim countries: 67% in Saudi Arabia, 64% in Jordan and Kuwait, 63% in Sudan, 60% in Iraq, and 54% in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

According to the BBC, this Pakistani, Muslim-inspired inbreeding is thought to explain the probability that a British Pakistani family is more than 13 times as likely to have children with recessive genetic disorders. While Pakistanis are responsible for three percent of the births in the UK, they account for 33% of children with genetic birth defects."

Much more at the link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.0

and here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.msg7612#msg7612
Saudi Arabia Awakes to the Perils of Inbreeding
By SARAH KERSHAW
Published: May 1, 2003
SIGN IN TO E-MAIL
PRINT
SINGLE-PAGE

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, April 24â€" When she was 17, marrying age for a Saudi girl, Salha al-Hefthi was presented with a husband.

She was lucky, her parents told her when they planned the wedding, that she was to marry such a good man, a man from her own tribe, a man who would care for their children and make a good living. He was the son of her father's brother -- her first cousin -- and everyone, including the bride, agreed that ''a first cousin was a first choice,'' she said.

The couple had two healthy boys, now 22 and 20, but their third child, a girl, was born with spinal muscular atrophy, a crippling and usually fatal disease that was carried in the genes of both parents. Their fourth, sixth and seventh children were also born with the disorder.

Spinal muscular atrophy and the gene that causes it, along with several other serious genetic disorders, are common in Saudi Arabia, where women have an average of six children and where in some regions more than half of the marriages are between close relatives.

Across the Arab world today an average of 45 percent of married couples are related, according to Dr. Nadia Sakati, a pediatrician and senior consultant for the genetics research center at King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh.

In some parts of Saudi Arabia, particularly in the south, where Mrs. Hefthi was raised, the rate of marriage among blood relatives ranges from 55 to 70 percent, among the highest rates in the world, according to the Saudi government.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:44:42 AMCan we say "No way! These are lies and throw all that books!" No we can't.
Am I clear. (Did you get why I don't talk about the Bible) Hz.Muhammed never allowed people to do someting wrong to Bibles and Tevrats. Ok.
For us, it was Allah who send all the books. Tevrat, old, new Testement, Quran and which we don't know the names of them.

But a reasonable person can see that it is Satan that would want to continue the misery produced, from sanctioning his people to continue to inbreed.

Sura 33.50 "O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God, has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts..."

PLEASE LOOK AT THIS VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2w4zAken08

QuoteJust the same reason that the Enghish people conquered America. Same reason Italian and so on did.
Was that your question?

The difference is that those expansions into the Americas were not considered a religious duty by those that traveled there. My question is if warfare and the spread of Islam isn't considered legitimate by this method why did the Caliphs do so following Muhammad's death? Why did Muhammad use this method if it isn't a legitimate means of spreading the faith?

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:50:14 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:44:42 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:18:37 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:16:23 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:09:59 AM

Quote from: Peter on March 08, 2012, 07:02:40 AM

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 06:56:53 AM
Are you having fun with me?

You may think it's funny today, but what does scripture say about the false prophet Muhammad and his Islamic kingdom "beast"?

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

You will erase the things I wrote don't you. You are not even reading what I write.

You are not even answering this...

I was in the process when you repeated it. I don't erase things in the forum. We have had people come in here and keep ignoring my replies and posting new material instead. If they persist I put their posts in storage until they answer to the posts they are ignoring. Please read forum decorum. You are not even reading what I write.

It is you that has been ignoring my posts, and ignoring the verses I have shown you from your own books.

I asked you repeatedly to please show us where the Gospel calls Christians to fight and slay non-Christians.

See, you are not readin what I wrote. I answerd tham all. I said hadises and the people are not the representative of Allah. And why I don't point things in Bible is, even the Bible has been changed there can be some words of Allah in it. And that is not nice. At the times of Bible those things can be needed to told by Allah. Even if it look something bad for our times, (now a days) in the years of 0 (Zero) they can be normal to talk.
Let me tell you this way. We bouth believe Adam an Eve are the firts people. And their childeren married. Now we are talking about incest.

And God allowed for it at the beginnings of mankind, to get our species going. However:

http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.0
"This practice, which has been prohibited in the Judeo-Christian tradition since the days of Moses, was sanctioned by Muhammad and has been going on now for 50 generations (1,400 years) in the Muslim world.

This practice of inbreeding will never go away in the Muslim world since Muhammad is the ultimate example and authority on all matters, including marriage."

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God, has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts..."

"The massive inbreeding in Muslim culture may well have done virtually irreversible damage to the Muslim gene pool, including extensive damage to its intelligence, sanity, and health.

According to Sennels, close to half of all Muslims in the world are inbred. In Pakistan, the numbers approach 70%. Even in England, more than half of Pakistani immigrants are married to their first cousins, and in Denmark the number of inbred Pakistani immigrants is around 40%.

The numbers are equally devastating in other important Muslim countries: 67% in Saudi Arabia, 64% in Jordan and Kuwait, 63% in Sudan, 60% in Iraq, and 54% in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

According to the BBC, this Pakistani, Muslim-inspired inbreeding is thought to explain the probability that a British Pakistani family is more than 13 times as likely to have children with recessive genetic disorders. While Pakistanis are responsible for three percent of the births in the UK, they account for 33% of children with genetic birth defects."

Much more at the link
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.0

and here
http://islamchristianforum.com/index.php?topic=1844.msg7612#msg7612
Saudi Arabia Awakes to the Perils of Inbreeding
By SARAH KERSHAW
Published: May 1, 2003
SIGN IN TO E-MAIL
PRINT
SINGLE-PAGE

RIYADH, Saudi Arabia, April 24â€" When she was 17, marrying age for a Saudi girl, Salha al-Hefthi was presented with a husband.

She was lucky, her parents told her when they planned the wedding, that she was to marry such a good man, a man from her own tribe, a man who would care for their children and make a good living. He was the son of her father's brother -- her first cousin -- and everyone, including the bride, agreed that ''a first cousin was a first choice,'' she said.

The couple had two healthy boys, now 22 and 20, but their third child, a girl, was born with spinal muscular atrophy, a crippling and usually fatal disease that was carried in the genes of both parents. Their fourth, sixth and seventh children were also born with the disorder.

Spinal muscular atrophy and the gene that causes it, along with several other serious genetic disorders, are common in Saudi Arabia, where women have an average of six children and where in some regions more than half of the marriages are between close relatives.

Across the Arab world today an average of 45 percent of married couples are related, according to Dr. Nadia Sakati, a pediatrician and senior consultant for the genetics research center at King Faisal Specialist Hospital in Riyadh.

In some parts of Saudi Arabia, particularly in the south, where Mrs. Hefthi was raised, the rate of marriage among blood relatives ranges from 55 to 70 percent, among the highest rates in the world, according to the Saudi government.

Quote from: Bornao on March 08, 2012, 07:44:42 AMCan we say "No way! These are lies and throw all that books!" No we can't.
Am I clear. (Did you get why I don't talk about the Bible) Hz.Muhammed never allowed people to do someting wrong to Bibles and Tevrats. Ok.
For us, it was Allah who send all the books. Tevrat, old, new Testement, Quran and which we don't know the names of them.

But as a reasonable person can see, it is Satan that would keep his people inbreeding.

"O prophet! We have made lawful to thee thy wives to whom thou hast paid their dowers; and those whom thy right hand possesses out of the prisoners of war whom God, has assigned to thee; and daughters of thy paternal uncles and aunts, and daughters of thy maternal uncles and aunts..."

PLEASE LOOK AT THIS VIDEO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2w4zAken08

Brother I am not sure what I understand. Inside of this there is so much foreigen words for me.

Now what I understand is you are talking marriage. And marring with cousins thing. (Fix me if I got it wrong)

In islam you can there are thing you can, things you can't ant things you can but not called beautiful. (An example of what "you can, but not beautiful is divorce. Or smoke. You can smoke but it is not nice. You can divorce but God does not like it)
Here is some history for you:
At those days when you adopt a child you take him in the center of the city and say "This is my son/daugher" And after that he/she is known as a child of you.
What Hz.Muhammed did is he buy Zeyd (A littel slave boy) and take him to the center and said "This is my boy." To show slaying is not good and what is good is making them free. But as he did that, God said (In my words) "No, you can't adopt a child, call them with the names of their father." I do better here is the Surah, The Allies 33/4-5-37

4.    Allah has not made for any man two hearts in his breast: nor has He made your wives whom ye divorce by Zih�r your mothers: nor has He made your adopted sons your sons. Such is (only) your (manner of) speech by your mouths. But Allah tells (you) the Truth, and He shows the (right) Way.

5.    Call them by their fathers: that is juster in the sight of Allah. But if ye know not their father's names, (then they are) your brothers in faith, or your friends. But there is no blame on you if ye make a mistake therein: (what counts is) the intention of your hearts: and Allah is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

37.    Behold! Thou didst say to one who had received the grace of Allah and thy favor: "Retain thou (in wedlock) thy wife, and fear Allah." But thou didst hide in thy heart that which Allah was about to make manifest: thou didst fear the people, but it is more fitting that thou shouldst fear Allah. Then when Zaid had dissolved (his marriage) with her, We joined her in marriage to thee: in order that (in future) there may be no difficulty to the Believers in (the matter of) marriage with the wives of their adopted sons, when the latter have dissolved (their marriage) with them. And Allah's command must be fulfilled.

Like ever man, prophets can do mistakes, (but they fix their mistakes and that makes them sinles) Anyway what he did is show all the muslims you can't adopt a child. Marring Zeyd's ex-wife shows that. He did not want to marrie her and that also shows it's is something which you can but not nice.